RE: alzapua

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RE: alzapua

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Piwin

Posts: 3559
Joined: Feb. 9 2016

RE: alzapua (in reply to Auda)

Yeah, i guess if you had been doing sextuplets or something like that you wouldn't have framed the question the way you did. So I don't know. Just so we're certain we're talking about the same thing, this is what I was thinking of:

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 26 2021 18:30:40

Auda

Posts: 246
Joined: Sep. 28 2019

RE: alzapua (in reply to Piwin)

Let me study that for a bit when I get a chance and get back to you Piwin. I do appreciate it!

Cheers

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 26 2021 18:42:13

Paul Magnussen

Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 8 2010
From: London (living in the Bay Area)

RE: alzapua (in reply to mark indigo)

quote:

The Chant du Monde / Grandes Figures Du Flamenco - Sabicas volume has some tracks mis-labelled though, and the track labelled Ecos Jerezanos (Soleá por Bulería) is actually Aires de Triana (Bulerías).

Specifically:

02) labelled Ecos de la Mina (Tarantas), is actually Punta y Tacón (Farruca). There is no Tarantas on the album.

07) labelled Ecos jerezanos (Soleá por Bulería), is actually Aires de Triana (Bulerías).

13) labelled Punta y Tacón (Farruca), is actually Brisas de La Caleta (Malagueñas).

15) labelled Brisas de La Caleta (Malagueñas), is actually Ecos jerezanos (Soleá por Bulería).

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 26 2021 19:30:54

devilhand

Posts: 1598
Joined: Oct. 15 2019

RE: alzapua (in reply to Auda)

quote:

What is the typical top speed for alzapua using the bass note for bpm? What is the fastest anybody has gone? Just curious. I am about 120bpm with the clock granted that is only with muted strings. It seems fairly quick but I feel I can probably get faster if I can get my thumb to be even more relaxed.

I haven't started my alzapua practice yet. But what I've understood so far in general is if you want to speed up, maximum relaxation and the economy of movement are the way to go. For pulgar and alzapua technique your thumb and wrist movements must be as short as possible. It should look like your thumb and wrist are almost shaking.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 26 2021 21:59:55

Ricardo

Posts: 14797
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: alzapua (in reply to Auda)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Auda

Thanks Piwin. I'll have to think about it. I am fairly sure I am not going at half speed so it does not compute though I have been wrong many times in the past.

Cheers

This confusion is common. When saying “120bpm” you have to say what note value gets the beat. A quarter note or half note etc. Almoraima could be written differently, like the Sabicas transcription we saw...in that case sabicas has quarter note = 120bpm but Almoraima is written as Half note =120 bpm. The reason they are written differently is the half note=120 bpm is adhering to the solea family structure so the 12 beats are always the same count but the tempo goes from 100 to way above 200 (off the dial of the metrnome in most cases). While this preserves some deeper logic and understanding, it is not necessarily the better way to capture the FEELING of the music. When we have to connect Solea to bulerias by supida (speed up the tempo gradually), all guitarists and probably the dancers too, acknowledge a “change” of feel...that is the point the quarter note turns into a half note. The beauty is anywhere along the way, it might happened at a different moment for the different individuals, and the COUNT is what holds it all together.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 26 2021 23:51:00

Guest

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Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Feb. 20 2021 10:10:57

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 27 2021 10:23:59

Auda

Posts: 246
Joined: Sep. 28 2019

RE: alzapua (in reply to Piwin)

Piwin - yeah that is what I have too. Thanks for posting it.

Devilhand - My playing has pretty much been "lazy" from the start by which I mean I have always tried to relax and minimise my movement. With newer things it does take some effort.

Ricardo - if I am reading your post right it should come eventually as long as I put in the qualitative time.

Cheers

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 27 2021 13:42:49

Ricardo

Posts: 14797
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: alzapua (in reply to Auda)

quote:

Ricardo - if I am reading your post right it should come eventually as long as I put in the qualitative time.

Simply put, the Sabicas Aires de Triana transcription is an ideal way to write the rhythm of a stand alone bulerias. The Almoraima shown above by Piwin is the typical way Buleria is written as if it were a Solea but played super fast.

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CD's and transcriptions available here:
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 27 2021 23:10:28

devilhand

Posts: 1598
Joined: Oct. 15 2019

RE: alzapua (in reply to Guest)

quote:

why haven’t you started practicing it? What are you waiting for?

I've been busy with arpeggio, tremolo, picado and rasgueado for the last few months. I'm gonna start pulgar technique including alzapua soon. One important reason for this is to bring some variations into my practice routine for example to avoid injury. I believe my ima fingers can rest a few minutes while praciticing pugar based techniques. Practicing only picado, tremolo and arps is one-sided for me.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 28 2021 14:34:03

Auda

Posts: 246
Joined: Sep. 28 2019

RE: alzapua (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

The beauty is anywhere along the way, it might happened at a different moment for the different individuals, and the COUNT is what holds it all together.

I believe I understood your point on .5 and .25 notes. What I thought you were also articulating was that from thoughtful diligent practice there will come a time when you make the jump in speed.

Cheers

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 28 2021 15:10:32

Auda

Posts: 246
Joined: Sep. 28 2019

RE: alzapua (in reply to Piwin)

In my alzapua practice I have/am trying to hit the exact same spot on my thumb for the bass rest note. I am trying to do it with all/mostly the flesh of the thumb. It seems to give me better all around consistency. It that the usual technique for most players? It seems I have less/no control when the nail gets involved.

Due to the new angle of attack with the thumb I have twice developed a blister though now I do not think it will be an issue going forward. Is that also typical?

Cheers

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 28 2021 15:21:49

Piwin

Posts: 3559
Joined: Feb. 9 2016

RE: alzapua (in reply to Auda)

In my book getting that brisk click sound on thumb strokes is a big part of flamenco aesthetics. So no personally I wouldn't play with only flesh. Alzapua and thumb lines are basically a separate hand position for me (different than say arpeggio, picado, tremolo, etc.). I play them with a more "broken" wrist, the angle between my thumb and the soundboard is closer to 90 degrees than for arpeggios, and the nail is all in there.

Blister seems normal to me. I'd think you want to build up a callous there. Comes and goes though. At least that's how it is for me. Maybe if I stopped chewing on it it wouldn't go away lol

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 28 2021 16:07:40

Auda

Posts: 246
Joined: Sep. 28 2019

RE: alzapua (in reply to Piwin)

I believe there is still a bit of nail in the stroke. Maybe I didn't explain it as fully I should have. I try not to notch the string between the nail and the flesh of the thumb unlike I the method used for the fingers. Hope that makes sense though probably still wrong.

Cheers

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 28 2021 16:19:11

mark indigo

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007

RE: alzapua (in reply to Auda)

quote:

I try not to notch the string between the nail and the flesh of the thumb unlike I the method used for the fingers.

I do that for fingers as well as thumb.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 28 2021 19:07:38

Ricardo

Posts: 14797
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: alzapua (in reply to Auda)

quote:

What I thought you were also articulating was that from thoughtful diligent practice there will come a time when you make the jump in speed.

No I meant that literally, as you have to make that transition during the baile, in the moment. The point being, as you can see at the time stamps below, the solea morphs directly into bulerias...it is this reason many transcribers choose to notate bulerias as if it WAS a solea.

quote:

Came across this revealing dance class. Keep in mind Jason here is probably first or second best at this thing in entire USA. The class is working on some solea portion that transitions into buleria as I describe. Jason improvise each time differently but over 30 minutes here you can learn a lot see how the counting thing is important to dancers. Couple of spots to pint out: the first transition is at 5:02 but watch from 4:40, 8:17, and at 14:35 he plays some straight solea but super fast throughout the buleria so you can keep track of count 1, it’s pretty cool: