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RE: Building two under influence of a 1973 Sobrinos de Esteso
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RobF
Posts: 1611
Joined: Aug. 24 2017
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 RE: Building two under influence of ... (in reply to estebanana)
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quote:
I go back and forth on how I make the saddle slot.
I started out with plunging, too, then pretty quickly moved to routing full across. It now occurs to me that by plunging you’re only routing half the distance, so the bit should last twice as long. Bonus.
Have you ever made the bridge with a shorter plunge (less wide) and kept the saddle slot enclosed? The idea being that it adds strength, and you can also route a deeper slot. I did that once or twice but decided removing the saddle was too much a pain in the butt. Also, I tried the Gilbert style once, but with a saddle, which by design required plunging. I liked how it looked a lot, nice and gracefully sculpted, but I didn’t really buy into the rationale, so didn’t pursue it.
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Date Dec. 19 2020 2:35:22
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RobF
Posts: 1611
Joined: Aug. 24 2017
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RE: Building two under influence of ... (in reply to estebanana)
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quote:
You did a good job copying it
Thanks. It was not as much a copy, per se, as an imperfect rendition of what my mind remembered to be the copy/permutation of the concept as done by my first teacher. I remember when I did it I struggled a bit but carried on, then went and visited my teacher and realized I hadn’t done a very accurate job copying his interpretation, to the point that I asked him to show me again how he did it and he kindly obliged by carving a couple in front of me. By then, it was apparent I had taken off a bit in my own direction, but I was too far along to stop so I just used what I had. It wasn’t an act of bravery or an assertion of creative license, as much as one of laziness and happenstance, as I had invested a lot of time in it, it was a nice piece of wood, and it hadn’t turned out too bad.
I don’t know if Gilbert built in the Spanish style or not, or whether he made the body and neck separately and then joined them with a dovetail or whatever, but his concept makes more sense with the latter method and doesn’t really marry into the Spanish method that well, I think. I didn’t build in the Spanish style until my fourth guitar, but had used the traditional bridge on my first (second being a steel string) and once I built one the Spanish way, it clicked and the practical aspects of the traditional bridge made a lot more sense to me, so I’ve been doing it that way ever since.
I like the idea of plunging the saddle slot, as it gives you total freedom on how you shape the wings. The straight through route can tie it up if it goes too deep because you have to carve under it for the wings. It can force carving a thinner wing than might be optimal.
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Date Dec. 20 2020 13:43:20
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estebanana
Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
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RE: Building two under influence of ... (in reply to mark indigo)
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Accidental rent money -
A foro member I correspond with gave me a lot of moral support in my adjusting to culture shock. It’s a real thing and it’s difficult outside Britain or US, Canada, because most of us from those countries are familiar with immigrant stories and have systems that support people coming in from other cultures. This country isn’t well equipped to help outsiders settle and it’s sometimes raw. If you move to the US there are racist A/ holes and nativist bat guano heads to be sure, but eventually you become an American over time. American identity is a polymer made of lots of ingredients, we come from every part of the earth and meet in America to become one people, Americans. That’s our strongest attribute when it works.
Japan and China are both countries I’ve lived in, but will never ever be a part of. There is no step work to become Japanese, identity is locked into birth. Sure you can become a citizen if you learn to speak to a certain level and have a reason to stay, but I’m on a three residence which has to be updated when it expires. I might get lucky this summer and get the five year residence card, but things are tighter now. The Foro friend I write to helped me with some encouragement from time to time in how to cope with culture shock, and knowing that I’ll always be an insider living on the outside of the culture. I’m not Japanese and never will be, but in some strange way they found a place for me and made some room. The foro friend said this isn’t easy and you’re going to have to work at adapting. And that was some good support.
I live in the in between space of not being in the country I was born in, but not being in a place I can be reborn in as fully cultured accepted being. I’ll always stand apart in the way I speak, look and physically move. This is a really good lesson for everyone to learn. Most Americans will never get the chance to see life from the in between space, it’s easy to imagine, but the reality of it isn’t.
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Date Dec. 30 2020 19:37:00
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ernandez R
Posts: 737
Joined: Mar. 25 2019
From: Alaska USA
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RE: Building two under influence of ... (in reply to mark indigo)
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I just crashed... Think I've been in the shop for eight ten hours a day for the last couple weeks. **** it was good to get back to wood shavings sawdust and glue, the smell of shellac and rubbing and rubbing until your arms were sore, the a little more.
I walked out to the shop today and spun through once and back out walked out to the end of the driveway and looked down the street.
No were to go, no where safe anyway... What a phucshow!
I've always been good at keeping me head down buried in whatever project kept my hands and mind busy, what's that saying in Japan, the nail that sticks up gets hammered. Thinking I feel hammered by this pandemic, the social responsibility, my own susceptibility with damaged lungs, I don't even go to the post office cause I live in one of the low information anti science all about my freedom states. Lucky!
Picked up another Parlor guitar commission the other day, feels like your roe box guitars, guessing I want to master guitar building, and here I am making these "cute little guitars". Don't worry I'm laughing, laughing at myself and laughing with you.
Might not be any cultural experience not virtual in my lifetime, no trip to Spain to see if the dust in those Tellors is any different then in my shop, no trip to the east, to Japan the home of my Ex. Perhaps no one creative wants to be assimilated ?
We usually make our own traps don't we? Ok, I didn't ask that moose to knock me down and crush my foot so I was laid up for months but I sure play a lot better; find good in bad.
In the end I feel good when I don't have time to comment on forums. Means I'm being productive. So here I am picking up the pieces, reaching out to a community because... because... I don't know. Because I don't have anything to complain about?
HR
_____________________________
I prefer my flamenco guitar spicy,
doesn't have to be fast,
should have some meat on the bones,
can be raw or well done,
as long as it doesn't sound like it's turning green on an elevator floor.
www.instagram.com/threeriversguitars
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Date Dec. 31 2020 4:12:07
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estebanana
Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
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RE: Building two under influence of ... (in reply to ernandez R)
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quote:
o were to go, no where safe anyway... What a phucshow!
I've always been good at keeping me head down buried in whatever project kept my hands and mind busy, what's that saying in Japan, the nail that sticks up gets hammered. Thinking I feel hammered by this pandemic, the social responsibility, my own susceptibility with damaged lungs, I don't even go to the post office cause I live in one of the low information anti science all about my freedom states. Lucky!
The expression the nail that sticks up gets smashed down isn’t popular anymore, if it ever was. I’m hear that a lot from other Americans. But I’ve come to see it as a cultural double standard because we do the same thing to our kids, but emotionally. We tell boys not to cry. They don’t do that here and it’s quite common for grown men to cry at joyous emotional stuff like winning or losing a sumo match.
The PTA has gained a lot of power in Japanese public education, teachers are vigilant not to get on the wrong side of them, so much so that the ones who get hammered are the teachers. The joke among teachers is to stay clear of ‘monster parents’ what we’ve come to call ‘little league parents’ and helicopter parents. The kids grow in a more emotionally open state, but have a narrower career path than US kids because they still have to choose in the 8th grade if they will go through an academic program or a vocational technical program. Then spend the 9th grade preparing to go to that type of high school. It’s more like the US school system in the 50’s to 70’s in some ways.
But boys don’t get ridiculed if they cry because they missed a soccer goal, or hit one from 20 meters out. US patriarchy is emotionally repressive, Japanese patriarchal order isn’t like that, is surprisingly not emotionally repressed.
So who’s nailing down the nails? We both are to some extent.
But I’m with you, stay clear of crazy trumpers who think this pandemic stuff is a thing you can play around with.
When I was in little league baseball, one team manger worked at Lockheed, he was a bastard. And in the day we took his abuse because we didn’t know better.
He would line us up against the backstop behind the plate and stand out about 20 feet with a baseball in his hand and lecture us. If he saw anyone not giving him rapt attention, he’d throw the baseball at that kid as hard as he could without going into a pitchers stretch. He was a fat, racist, abusive jerk who was an aeronautical engineer.
His son was in the team, one day his son started bawling because he couldn’t perform as well as his dad wanted him to. The coach told him to shut up, stuff it down and be a man, or go home. I went to the same jr high as this kid. He started an informal club, non school sanctioned, called The Fourth Reich and they gave each other Nazi salutes and talked about how inferior the Jewish kids at school were. They were cruel and a petty white kid gang of cry babies who’s rich daddies emotionally damaged them. They all grew up to be trump lovin’ toady loud mouths on social media, who shout down ‘libtards’ ( guys like me basically) and think they are being kept from expressing their human rights by folks asking them to wear masks.
I could go on....
Be careful out there and don’t John Wayne around with Covid-
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Date Dec. 31 2020 8:52:42
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ernandez R
Posts: 737
Joined: Mar. 25 2019
From: Alaska USA
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RE: Building two under influence of ... (in reply to mark indigo)
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There was an NPR interview of Ayano Tsuji, sings and plays uku in a couple Miyazaki animations, and they talk about the nail thing. Guessing that’s where most in the US have heard of it?
Interesting tie block can’t wait to see it all strung up. I just did my first tie block detail myself last week. Was more worried I would get it on crooked cause it was a good mm wider all around so I could trim it flush so I didn’t have much to go on to keep it centered,”. It came out fine, did another two days ago. Both are simple paper strips down the middle of a strip of yellow teak I was gifted, was part of a shipping crate from India, it’s canary yellow, took a while to track down exactly what it was. Matching headstock veneer and butt detail too. Photos on my insta link below.
I have a kid helping in the shop now and he is building a classical, super smart kid but bad dyslexic. Working on strategies to help him do basic math fractions and dealing with a ruler sae and mm. If you recall a I’ve got it bad too...
HR
_____________________________
I prefer my flamenco guitar spicy,
doesn't have to be fast,
should have some meat on the bones,
can be raw or well done,
as long as it doesn't sound like it's turning green on an elevator floor.
www.instagram.com/threeriversguitars
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Jan. 1 2021 8:12:07
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ernandez R
Posts: 737
Joined: Mar. 25 2019
From: Alaska USA
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RE: Building two under influence of ... (in reply to estebanana)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: estebanana
Back to business ~
I have some general observations about Faustino’s bridges or the bridges I associate with the Sobrinos of this period. I tried to get into the spirit of how they generally function. I’ll take some better photos later and explain what I mean. I’m interested in other makers opinions of the bridges they’ve looked at on Sobrinos guitars.
Stephan,
I have no experience with ether but I've spent some time digging through the Courtnell book comparing foot prints etc as I ready myself for a pair each of Flamenco and Classical builds and considering what one needs for each. My main focus has been on selection pieces with less dampening and really keeping in mind that each piece might have a higher natural frequency but he piece I tested, purely by ear, had a much lower frequency, less dense, but had a solid sustain most of the others had not. Of course i am not using triditional bridge woods, I've used walnut, hickory, and oak. I also use oak for my fingerboard and cut up a stack of them after we did the bridges and spent some time grading each piece using the same criteria.
Do you have a drawing of the bridg or scetch with dimensions?
Anyway, looking forward to your explanation.
HR
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_____________________________
I prefer my flamenco guitar spicy,
doesn't have to be fast,
should have some meat on the bones,
can be raw or well done,
as long as it doesn't sound like it's turning green on an elevator floor.
www.instagram.com/threeriversguitars
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Jan. 9 2021 19:36:08
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