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Black nylon srtings?   You are logged in as Guest
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Trev

Posts: 47
Joined: Aug. 25 2005
 

Black nylon srtings? 
Do any of you use black treble strings. The first time I played them was over the holidays in Madrid on a couple of Félix Manzanero's "estudio" guitars (i.e. factory) and I thought they sounded and felt bad. He told me "all" the flamencos use them. Actually the strings kept slipping on the saddle as well which I have never experienced before. Were these just poorly setup guitars or were the strings to blame?

-Trevor

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el_palido
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 16 2006 17:33:21
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14820
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Black nylon srtings? (in reply to Trev) 
Depends on the guitar and what you think is a good sound. For me, nothing is more "flamenco" than La Bella 820 B on a conde blanca. I always use them. But I have an other guitar that doesn't like em at all.

Ricardo
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 16 2006 18:23:35
 
edgar884

Posts: 1975
Joined: Nov. 16 2005
 

RE: Black nylon srtings? (in reply to Trev) 
Yep those 820s are the ****. And the light gauge are good too. I hate black trebles they sound muffled.

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May we find God through Flamenco instead of Angels and Demons

www.gabrieledgar.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 21 2006 5:56:08

JBASHORUN

Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005
 

RE: Black nylon srtings? (in reply to Trev) 
Its a matter of taste... I've heard of people that do like the black trebles. I think its the D'addario J49 set. I have them on my yamaha, and they sound okay... not exactly "muy flamenco" but then they are sold as standard classical strings (I think), and my guitar is partly to blame on that one... maybe on a Conde they'd be better.


Jb
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 22 2006 17:40:40
 
gshaviv

Posts: 272
Joined: Mar. 22 2005
From: Israel

RE: Black nylon srtings? (in reply to JBASHORUN) 
Isn't the difference between black trebles and red or clear trebles just the color?

I mean, La Bella for example has their 820 strings either in red or black, based on their specs its the same string, colored differently.

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Guy
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 22 2006 17:45:03

JBASHORUN

Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005
 

RE: Black nylon srtings? (in reply to gshaviv) 
quote:

Isn't the difference between black trebles and red or clear trebles just the color?

I mean, La Bella for example has their 820 strings either in red or black, based on their specs its the same string, colored differently.


As far as I know, its just a coloured pigment that they add to the nylon. I can't say for sure, but I'd guess the colour has very little (if any) effect on the sound. I think it started off as a gimmick for differentiating a particular make or model of string.

But if other people claim the colour makes them sound better or worse, maybe they're right?


Jb
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 22 2006 18:35:22
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14820
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Black nylon srtings? (in reply to JBASHORUN) 
They sound different to me. The black nylon DAddarios are alot duller than the La Bella 820B's. I went through a 10 pack, but they did not work so great on my guitars. La Bella 2001 HARD tension flamenco black nylon (not medium) were not bad, but not the same as 820.

Ricardo
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 22 2006 18:39:19
 
gshaviv

Posts: 272
Joined: Mar. 22 2005
From: Israel

RE: Black nylon srtings? (in reply to Ricardo) 
quote:

They sound different to me. The black nylon DAddarios are alot duller than the La Bella 820B's.


Yeah, but isn't that due to the difference between the brands D'Addario vs. La Bella rather then the color difference?

How do the La Bella 820 red vs. 820 black sound?

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Guy
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 22 2006 18:46:54
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14820
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Black nylon srtings? (in reply to gshaviv) 
Ok, BLACK NYLON TREBS SOUND DIFFERENT TO ME THAN RED OR CLEAR ESPECIALLY WITHIN THE SAME BRAND NAME. IN MY OPINION.

To me the blacks are more percussive than red. I was comparing Daddario to labella because they are both BLACK, and some one asked about Daddario blacks. Daddario were not as bright. 820B, the B refers to Black nylon trebles.

Ricardo
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 22 2006 19:15:13
 
gshaviv

Posts: 272
Joined: Mar. 22 2005
From: Israel

RE: Black nylon srtings? (in reply to Ricardo) 
quote:

Ok, BLACK NYLON TREBS SOUND DIFFERENT TO ME THAN RED OR CLEAR ESPECIALLY WITHIN THE SAME BRAND NAME. IN MY OPINION.


I think you are right. While I didn't find any actual description from LaBella I did find two other sites that say that the black LaBella trebles produce a more precussive sound while the reds produce a sweeter tone.

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Guy
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 22 2006 22:22:00
Guest

[Deleted] (in reply to Trev) 
[Deleted by Admins]

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 23 2006 12:16:51
 
Jim Opfer

Posts: 1876
Joined: Jul. 19 2003
From: Glasgow, Scotland.

RE: Black nylon srtings? (in reply to Guest) 
Nothing on this planet comes close to Savarev Corum Alliance IMO . Take your pick of tension.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 23 2006 12:35:58
 
Trev

Posts: 47
Joined: Aug. 25 2005
 

RE: Black nylon srtings? (in reply to Guest) 
Sendero,
"They are more polished and this might account for the sliding, but I am going to guess the sliding is due to too low a nut and bridge design. I had a guitar with this problem and resolved it by a higher nut and winding the trebles around themselves at the bridge instead of just a single loop."

You say it might be because of a low nut. What do you mean exactly? I could see that if there was no little groove within the saddle that the string could slide, but this symptom I had was very different from any guitar I have played. I didn't see anything unusual with the saddle. The action was quite nice actuallly, about 3.2 mm maybe. The trebles were looped around themselves twice per usual btw.

As far as the sound I really do hear a diffference between black and clear. The best way I can describe the sound of these black strings would be, to say the sounded dull and plastic, with short sustain (not due to low action). Maybe they were old strings I don't know, although the basses sounded new.

I'm am sure that different strings sound different with different guitars, thru my own experiences, but I don't know. Maybe I should buy a set and try them out on my guitar?

I will say thought that Felix Manzanero and his wife were very nice and I really wanted to buy a guitar from him, but hey, I didn't like the guitars I played. I wish I could play one of his hand-made guitars though that would be nice. He didn't have one finished at the time. And what a great shop he had.

All this discussion about strings, however, is a big reminder that it really doesn't matter anyway. I still play like an aficianado

cheers,
Trevor

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el_palido
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 24 2006 6:10:31
Guest

[Deleted] (in reply to Trev) 
[Deleted by Admins]

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 24 2006 11:21:00
 
Trev

Posts: 47
Joined: Aug. 25 2005
 

RE: Black nylon srtings? (in reply to Trev) 
I see what you mean now. You're talking about the break angle. At this point I don't really remember what the angle was, but I know it didn't seem out of the ordinary.

At this point I use Daddario high tension on both my factory Conde and Ramirez simply because they seem to be very consistent in quality. Plus they are cheap! I like them on the conde but on my ramirez I think I would like to experiment a little with different sets. Now I just have to finish 15 or so sets that I have left first. I like to change my strings at least every 3 weeks so keeping the cost down on strings is not a bad thing for me. If I play one of my guitars with worn, dead strings I start to dislike my instrument, and that is not good.

"Either the Hannabach or LaBella blacks or reds sound great on either my blanc or negra, but I use the high tension as I have them adjusted about 2.5 mm at the 12th. "

2.5 That's awesome. My ramirez is about 2.8 and buzzes a bit as well but it's so easy to play. I thought about raising the action to eliminate the buzz but I'm having too much fun as it is right now. Plus, my friends that I play with from spain seem to think that buzz is mas flamenco anyway.

Thanks,
Trevor

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el_palido
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 24 2006 23:48:38

JBASHORUN

Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005
 

RE: Black nylon srtings? (in reply to Trev) 
Is it just my eyes, or is Sabicas using black trebles in his "King of Flamenco" DVD?


Maybe just my eyes...


Jb
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 28 2006 19:28:11
 
XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005
 

RE: Black nylon srtings? (in reply to Trev) 
Just tried the 820B black trebles. They are the dullest strings ive ever heard I mean the opposite of "bright". They sound like 6-months-old Hannabachs.

But the surface of the basses seem really softer, good for the nails!

Btw 820B cost 6$, Hannabach Flamenco 12€ and the non-flamenco 10€.

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Фламенко
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 1 2006 16:30:05
 
frhout

 

Posts: 453
Joined: Apr. 28 2005
From: France

RE: Black nylon srtings? (in reply to Trev) 
I tried in 1984-85, as recommended by Juan Martin in his book, the D'Addario Juan Martin flamenco de concierto guitars strings. He claimed that these strings would definitely give a flamenco sound even to a dull sounding guitar. The trebles were black. I used them twice and have never bothered with them again.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 1 2006 16:44:22
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14820
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Black nylon srtings? (in reply to XXX) 
quote:

Just tried the 820B black trebles. They are the dullest strings ive ever heard I mean the opposite of "bright". They sound like 6-months-old Hannabachs.


Which guitar do you use? On one of my guitars they were dull. On another they were really bright and had the flamenco "bite". Depends on the guitar.

Ricardo
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 1 2006 22:04:44
 
XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005
 

RE: Black nylon srtings? (in reply to Trev) 
After playing them couple of hours I have changed my opinion on the 820B a little.

First: the basses are a phenomenon! Didnt it annoy you too that whenever you put new bass strings on, youre guitar sounded metallic and cheap? These basses sound soft from the first second!
Then they are less noisy/squeaking when rubbing them (like the noise that appears when you shift position with lefthand or make a picado with RH)

I will order another set just because of these basses!

Trebles: Its not that I dont like them. They have a beautifull tone and are quite loud. But its not easy to make them buzz/bite, at least not as easy as Hannabachs (both classical and flamenco are good), which Im used to play now for a very long time.
I wont pull them off, I think they would be perfect for modern stuff!
(The product description says itself, that the material is softer than other models)

Ps: I used Hannabach Classical "super low tension" before, so its normal that they sounded much more bity, crisp, but with less overtones.

Oh and sorry Ricardo, I cant provide a known brand for my guitar. Its just a normal blanca I guess, built in 1976 as it says on the inlay. It seems it was a custom-made guitar for a guitar shop in Cologne. Model: "Flamenco professional" ... yeah lol.

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Фламенко
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 1 2006 23:32:41
 
XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005
 

RE: Black nylon srtings? (in reply to Trev) 
"Hannabach Goldin Super Carbon" trebles !!!

Well for my guitar this is IT !!! They have medium/high tension AND have that buzzy sound!

Ok the e string makes my index hurt a little (actually not only a little), but the sound is worth it really!

The trebles cost 11 euro, which is huge for 3 strings (but) even only the sound on the e-string is worth 11 euro IMO !

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Фламенко
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 3 2006 16:17:30

JBASHORUN

Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005
 

RE: Black nylon srtings? (in reply to JBASHORUN) 
quote:

Is it just my eyes, or is Sabicas using black trebles in his "King of Flamenco" DVD?


I just checked again. Even freeze-framed the close up shots. Its impossible to be 100% sure, but I would say I'm 90% sure Sabicas is using black trebles.

Anyone else have this DVD? If so, let me know if I'm right...


Jb
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 6 2006 9:56:06
 
Jamey

Posts: 187
Joined: Jul. 7 2004
From: Winnipeg, Canada

RE: Black nylon srtings? (in reply to Trev) 
I use the LaBella 2001's with the black trebles, high tension.

They are definitely bright and sharp on my guitar, no question. The 'G' almost sounds like an oud to me. They're almost too bright on a blanca (mine) but I've gotten used to it. I noticed Parrilla used black trebles in 'Vengo' on a blanca. This (to me) would explain his intensely bright and sharp sound that he had (at least in part).

They feel different on the finger board but you get used to them (less give under your fingers, harder material perhaps?)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 6 2006 23:52:45
 
XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005
 

RE: Black nylon srtings? (in reply to Jamey) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jamey
The 'G' almost sounds like an oud to me.


? The oud has an especially dull sound of all instruments I know. Bright means to me that the sound is louder on high frequencies. Steelstrings are a very extreme example (e-strings) of what I mean.

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Фламенко
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 7 2006 0:26:59
 
Jamey

Posts: 187
Joined: Jul. 7 2004
From: Winnipeg, Canada

RE: Black nylon srtings? (in reply to Trev) 
I'm talking about that "twangy" nasal tone they have. I'm not referring to any thudding sound. They're far from dull.

- Jamey
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 8 2006 2:39:46
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