Original design - based on 1850’s to Jaleo painting era

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estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

Original design - based on 1850’s ...

I designed a small body guitar based on mid 19th century sizes and look. I studied photos of guitars by Torres, Pernas, later 19th century Spanish work from Andalusia and Madrid. Plus looked at Benedid in Cadiz and as many others as I could.
Rather than make exact copies of a particular guitar I opted for an original design based around the guitars of that day. I find exact copies or bench copies to be difficult mainly because I can’t get a good model to study long enough. Ideally I’d like to study a guitar for several weeks in order to copy it.

But I have seen enough guitars from this time period in person to be able to use the methods and aesthetic awareness of this time period. I know they often used discarded mill ends and odd wood for making thin liners, and that the transition carving, evident also in photos, between the neck and headstock is different than how we do it today, etc. I compiled a mental list of period details and designed as if I were just another maker in that era seeing the guitars around me. I tried to forget modern guitars while designed it. And didn’t use items like premade liners and did use tools like toothed planes.

Here are some photos of one of them-

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https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 2 2020 1:36:10

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Original design - based on 1850�... (in reply to estebanana)

640 scale
Indian rosewood- spruce top- maple lines in rosette and maple binding.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 2 2020 1:38:10

RobF

Posts: 1611
Joined: Aug. 24 2017

RE: Original design - based on 1850�... (in reply to estebanana)

Really nice! I like it.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 2 2020 2:58:16

davewphx

Posts: 126
Joined: Jul. 11 2011

RE: Original design - based on 1850�... (in reply to estebanana)

Beautiful Stephen. Can you tell us the approx dimensions? It has a baroque quality I think.

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Dave

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 2 2020 19:01:40

ernandez R

Posts: 737
Joined: Mar. 25 2019
From: Alaska USA

RE: Original design - based on 1850�... (in reply to estebanana)

I’ve built a parlor loosely based on the ‘63 Torres Brune wrote up in Vintage Guitar magazine. Not as nice or fancy as yours Stephan but still surprisingly nice tonally.
For some reason I made the scale 23” instead of the original 25”, brain fart I suppose?
I found the third string, the G, is a little funky with a hint of ukalalie.
Just now finishing up the second one and might have the strings on her sans shellac tomorrow morning.
They really are a perfect size for kicking back feet up and the sound is surprisingly full, the shorter scale means first position finger stretch cords come easier if it is a little tight toward the twelfth fret.
I too have been tempted to mimic the early Torres style head stock, I don’t care for the later tombstone style, perhaps a slight variation.
I do find your fretboard extension over the sound hole aesthetically incongruent but that’s just a matter of personal taste.
I believe this is your second or third of this size and after playing her some are there any changes you have considered for the next? My goal is to get daringly close to the original lightly braced and thinness of Torres’ structure but getting there a little at a time: one back brace, no tone bars, and .8mm ribs takes bravery if not total madness!

HR

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I prefer my flamenco guitar spicy,
doesn't have to be fast,
should have some meat on the bones,
can be raw or well done,
as long as it doesn't sound like it's turning green on an elevator floor.

www.instagram.com/threeriversguitars

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 2 2020 20:19:54

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Original design - based on 1850�... (in reply to davewphx)

Yeah I’m busy now, but I’ll get back to you with thoughts

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 3 2020 2:43:06

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Original design - based on 1850�... (in reply to estebanana)

I read a lot of material like this Vintage Guitar essay by Brune’ about the 1863 instrument with the non Three Hills headstock

https://www.google.co.jp/amp/s/www.vintageguitar.com/3434/antonio-de-torres-1863/amp/

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 3 2020 6:43:28

JasonM

Posts: 2055
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: Original design - based on 1850�... (in reply to estebanana)

Is this one of dem der backpackin’ geetars?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 3 2020 15:35:58

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Original design - based on 1850�... (in reply to JasonM)

No it’s not a backpacking guitar. It’s a real concert intended instrument. It’s a period piece covering that time from 1840’s to early 20th century when a tournavoz may have been used. And the music would be mostly stuff like Tarrega and his many seldom talk about contemporaries. Or without the tournavoz ( I would reckon) this is probably something that players that worked in flamenco and popular music would recognize as a common guitar.

It’s likely that before the Torres size guitar got wide attention that guitars like this were fairly normal and during the time Torres became more known late 19th century, this guitar remains on the scene. It’s a lot like what I imagine the guitars hanging in the back wall in the Jaleo painting were like. And if the tournavoz was not in this one, with a tap plate you could play this guitar in a cuadro today with no problem.

The first one I made on this plantilla was just under 3” thick, and thin cypress body, spruce top with five fans. It could be heard down the street. Small, flamenco sounding and LOUD

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 4 2020 1:30:16

mark indigo

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007

RE: Original design - based on 1850�... (in reply to estebanana)

quote:

It’s a lot like what I imagine the guitars hanging in the back wall in the Jaleo painting were like.

always wondered about the guitars in that picture.

The Vintage Guitar essay by Brune’ was interesting, thanks.

It's in no way a criticism, so pls don't be offended (and I realise from the article that it comes from Torres), but the headstock reminds me of Batman!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 4 2020 8:56:53

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Original design - based on 1850�... (in reply to mark indigo)

I’m not worried or offended it looks like Batman. I was offended and neurotic when another guitar maker in San Francisco said my old now disused headstock looked like that stupid Christian dove symbol. I changed it after that.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 5 2020 0:33:01

El Burdo

Posts: 632
Joined: Sep. 8 2011

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 5 2020 20:35:25

ernandez R

Posts: 737
Joined: Mar. 25 2019
From: Alaska USA

RE: Original design - based on 1850�... (in reply to El Burdo)

quote:

ORIGINAL: El Burdo

Very interesting バナナサン。There are quite a few of these in the Evans book- this one in particular, though I think Panormo could change the headstock here - it looks a bit sus.

And those mechanical tuners are for the weak...

Just made up a set of pegs for my latest "Veintitres" 23 inch scale. Not finished but I couldn't help splashing some linseed oil on them to get an idea how they would look and how much more I wanted to carve away.

A note about the Panormo guitar and my first guitar. I made the headstock out of Hickory, what the heck did I know, but what I've noticed is the vary dense, say less dampening material seems to have made a big difference in the tone. Please don't ask me for much more than that. My next guitar I intend to build the headstock out of Hickory again.

So i was surprised to read that Panormo was making his headstock out of maple and had to wonder if he preferred the sonic properties? Of course I'm using pegs.

HR

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 5 2020 21:43:06

ernandez R

Posts: 737
Joined: Mar. 25 2019
From: Alaska USA

RE: Original design - based on 1850�... (in reply to estebanana)

quote:

ORIGINAL: estebanana

I’m not worried or offended it looks like Batman. I was offended and neurotic when another guitar maker in San Francisco said my old now disused headstock looked like that stupid Christian dove symbol. I changed it after that.

Stephan,
I feel like a total cop out with my chop saw flush headstock... was thinking less dove and more frog a la Rivera. I have a few sketches in a drawer somewhere...

HR

_____________________________

I prefer my flamenco guitar spicy,
doesn't have to be fast,
should have some meat on the bones,
can be raw or well done,
as long as it doesn't sound like it's turning green on an elevator floor.

www.instagram.com/threeriversguitars

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 5 2020 22:03:49