Flamenco Guitar Scale length

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lohan

Posts: 70
Joined: Nov. 29 2020

Flamenco Guitar Scale length

I as a novice see different sizes for Flamenco Guitar Scale lengths

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 30 2020 10:33:56

Argaith

Posts: 481
Joined: May 6 2009
From: Iran (living in London)

RE: Flamenco Guitar Scale length (in reply to lohan)

One reason is that humans come in all sizes; some with bigger hands and some with smaller.

A

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 30 2020 13:21:24

lohan

Posts: 70
Joined: Nov. 29 2020

RE: Flamenco Guitar Scale length (in reply to Argaith)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Argaith

One reason is that humans come in all sizes; some with bigger hands and some with smaller.

A

Thank You so much

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 30 2020 14:50:56

Ricardo

Posts: 14801
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Flamenco Guitar Scale length (in reply to lohan)

quote:

Why a Flamenco Guitarist choose 650mm and the other one choose 655mm and the other one 660mm?

A good player does not care at all about this. This is more a choice of the luthier with what works with his design plan. The 670 guitar compared to 650 has some noticeable differences, but the ones between those would be hard for a player to distinguish. The first fret barre and reach will be noticeably different (more difficult on the 670), but a capo placed in the high position like 7 or above, which is required for cante sometimes, the wider frets make things easier up there (so 670 becomes easier, the 650 feels crammed together).

In addition, the right hand needs to play around between the bridge and the sound hole to find the sweeter tone spot for each technique. The bigger scale guitar will also have more room to play with these adjustments in that area. The shorter scale will require more exacting right hand position or the sound changes. Keep in mind these adjustments and feelings are usually done by a good player unconsciously as they adapt and use their ear to pull the sound they want out of the guitar.

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CD's and transcriptions available here:
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 30 2020 15:58:03

lohan

Posts: 70
Joined: Nov. 29 2020

RE: Flamenco Guitar Scale length (in reply to Ricardo)

Thank You so much for your detailed explanation

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 30 2020 16:48:46

devilhand

Posts: 1598
Joined: Oct. 15 2019

RE: Flamenco Guitar Scale length (in reply to lohan)

The playability and the sound are affected by the scale length. For example the longer the scale length the heavier/louder the bass string will sound.

Also you may use lower tension strings on a longer scale guitar and higher tension strings on a shorter scale guitar.

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Say No to Fuera de Compás!!!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 30 2020 18:55:58

lohan

Posts: 70
Joined: Nov. 29 2020

RE: Flamenco Guitar Scale length (in reply to devilhand)

quote:

ORIGINAL: devilhand

The playability and the sound are affected by the scale length.

Thanks alot..

a question:

Guitar I
Scale lenght: 665 mm
String height 12th fret: 2.7mm

Guitar II
Scale lenght: 650 mm
String height 12th fret: 2.7mm

Regarding "playability": which one is better in playability? (for example: fast picados & etc)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 30 2020 19:46:08

devilhand

Posts: 1598
Joined: Oct. 15 2019

RE: Flamenco Guitar Scale length (in reply to lohan)

Guitar II.
650mm is comfortable for the left hand fingers because the distance between the 1st, 2nd and 3rd fret is lower.

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Say No to Fuera de Compás!!!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 30 2020 22:37:41

mark indigo

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007

RE: Flamenco Guitar Scale length (in reply to lohan)

quote:

a question:

You might want to check your informants have actual experience of actual flamenco guitars... Ricardo has plenty of videos on youtube, so he's easy to fact check

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 30 2020 22:44:01

Morante

Posts: 2179
Joined: Nov. 21 2010

RE: Flamenco Guitar Scale length (in reply to lohan)

Bear in mind that a flamenco guitar is almost always played with a cejilla, which makes a great difference. My guitar is 660, but with a cejilla on traste dos it is 590.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 1 2020 1:02:00

Ricardo

Posts: 14801
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Flamenco Guitar Scale length (in reply to lohan)

quote:

Regarding "playability": which one is better in playability? (for example: fast picados & etc)

Speaking as somebody that owns both and more (devilhand does not yet own a flamenco guitar, but seems to know a lot about them!

), I would say the answer depends on the context you are using the guitar. For “fast picados” I prefer guitars that are actually a little stiffer and higher actions (3.0mm is good at 12), because you need the snap back response. Low action guitars you have to be careful and play softer or rather it can be hard to get the sound you want. Low action guitars are great for rhythm playing however, strumming raspy rasgueados are great and holding barre chords for a long time etc.

In terms of feel, if you play with zero capo guitar 1 is better, with capo often up high, guitar 2 is better, and if you play with capo often but in middle to lower positions, either guitar will feel the exact same on the left hand.

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CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 1 2020 3:14:42

lohan

Posts: 70
Joined: Nov. 29 2020

RE: Flamenco Guitar Scale length (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo

For “fast picados” I prefer guitars that are actually a little stiffer and higher actions (3.0mm is good at 12), because you need the snap back response.

Thank You so much Ricardo.. I have learned so & so & so much from You in foroflamenco.com. I Thank You so much for your reply ..

a question:

Is fast Picado sth about right hand OR is it sth about left hand? I conclude that You mean fast picado is sth about right hand, and I am completely understand what you mean and I am agree with that..Most of time I myslef felt that I need a stiff string under my i & m fingers during picado.. BUT: at same time I need a soft very low action guitar for my left hand and fast touching of frets..

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 1 2020 6:01:43

lohan

Posts: 70
Joined: Nov. 29 2020

RE: Flamenco Guitar Scale length (in reply to mark indigo)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mark indigo

You might want to check your informants have actual experience of actual flamenco guitars...

I have learned flamenco guitar playing from fake people and my mind is full of lots of fake information.. I should ask these questions to find the truth because I feel I can trust foroflamenco.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 1 2020 6:05:09

Ricardo

Posts: 14801
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Flamenco Guitar Scale length (in reply to lohan)

quote:

Most of time I myslef felt that I need a stiff string under my i & m fingers during picado.. BUT: at same time I need a soft very low action guitar for my left hand and fast touching of frets..

Right, so the balance has to be discovered. If I attend a party where there are two guitars and one is high action the other low, I will chose the high action one because I know it will project the sound I want. Left hand speed is not really a problem for picado as you only need to push down single notes. Left hand action is more a problem if you are playing involved arpegios and things where you need the notes to ring out. But even there...too low is no good because if you develop a robust arpegio “grip” with the right hand, the guitar can still sound like a banjo on arpeggiated chords, just as bad as picado.

There are players that develop a soft touch on these low action guitars and that is fine, but the sound needs a lot of reinforcement. Conversely a high action guitar might not work for flamenco compas because the chords need to ring out but have percussive attack. If you have no buzz at all then the chords tend to sound a bit muddy. So the Goldilocks balance between hard and soft guitars needs to be discovered.

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CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 1 2020 15:02:12

JasonM

Posts: 2054
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: Flamenco Guitar Scale length (in reply to Ricardo)

Also the stiffness of the soundboard/top can have a big influence on the string tension. We had a discussion not too long ago about scale length and string tension..it does matter but is only one factor. Are the two guitars from the same maker? If so, it could be a better chance that they have similar soundboard stiffness.

I definitely have noticed picado is easier on my stiffer/ higher action guitar! Thought I was just getting faster :/

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 1 2020 16:49:32

lohan

Posts: 70
Joined: Nov. 29 2020

RE: Flamenco Guitar Scale length (in reply to Ricardo)

PERFECT EXPLANATION! Thanks alot

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 1 2020 17:52:52

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Flamenco Guitar Scale length (in reply to Ricardo)

May the interstellar space and galaxies bless your family for hundred generations for not being that stupid weenier who insists on having 2.5 high bass string at 12th fret. That kills the sound

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 3 2020 10:39:37