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Who writes such useless bad tabs? Why? For Whom????
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rick
Posts: 56
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
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 RE: Who writes such useless bad tabs... (in reply to Doitsujin)
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this is exactly the type of thread that creates a firestorm. I have some thoughts so bear with me. FIrst, i think that is true for all music not just flamenco. I have seen autrociious classical tabs and horrible rock tabs as well. It is true, what Jim says that frequetnly tabbers are mid proficient kinds of players without the benefit of scholarship. But maybe we shouldnt be too harsh. When one is learning he is tasked with either searching for tabs or printed music for sale as Tom suggests, or hiring a teacher. Not all teachers are great teachers. One can spend a lot of money with a teacher of any sort and not learn beans. A lot of the truly great players are looking for that mentor protege relationship and if you struggle whatever you are now beneath their dignity to really be involved with. Lets face it, learning the nuances of classical and particularly flamenco takes a knowledgeable teacher (hard to find) willing to share, Harder to find and now has the abilities to demonstrate pedagogy. Impossible. Most are not willing as Tom is to share what has gone before and genuinely help with the process of learning music, learning technique, learning nuances and putting up with a struggling music-phile. so where does one turn? One looks to availbable sources as the net to come with pertinent viability. In a way the net is the teacher. If students can find forums like this, they are much better off, but this forum is unique as to the proficient players who wish to share knowledge and experience. It doesnt exist in the classical side. Maybe the fault is not the student, but the teachers who want a fortune and doesnt teach. Maybe it is the lack of sponsorship at schools etc for creditable guitar like classical and certainly flamenco. Maybe it is the culture that suggests for whatever you want you have to pay. Who puts worthless junk on the net? People who are trying to understand. I dont see it as an influence meant to corrupt flamenco or any other genre, but as people who have not had the benefit of constructive, concerned learning. In that I salute Tom and his generous-ness and Miguel and several of you. Lets not be too hard on the tabbers, there is a whole world of stuff I wouldnt ahve a clue about if it were not for tab. When I searched for a flamenco teacher in the Chicago area, I contacted several players and was basically told you are not good enough to be my student. So I picked up what I could> that was five years ago and Im just beginning to get an understanding of classical - flamenco. I have a classical teacher and a old flamenco who are willing to take an interest in me and share the nuances of good music, but it was an immense struggle to find them. Lets face it, there are few flamencos in the world and fewer who want to spend time with a learner. One more line, I think those who can have a responsibility to share with those that cant, or the music dies. ( I think
Socrates (and John Lee Hooker) said something similare. It's not about making $$ necessarily, but spreading the word of the music.
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Date Mar. 4 2006 17:29:17
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Thomas Whiteley
Posts: 786
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: San Francisco Bay Area
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RE: Who writes such useless bad tabs... (in reply to rick)
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quote:
Not all teachers are great teachers.
Rick;
I believe that I have stated that (in my opinion based upon experience and inquiry) 85% of teachers are incompetent. I think that I am being generous at that! With luck you will find a good teacher but how do you know a good teacher from one who takes your money, could care less about you, teach you incorrectly or not at all and says, “Come back next week” (with money in hand)!
Now this thing about teachers and level of students in most interesting. We all have to start somewhere. I enjoy beginners because they have not picked up bad habits. One of my teachers was and is Juan Serrano. I first met Juan in 1969 and have enjoyed his music for years before I met him. I brought our son Brian to Juan for his first lesson. We video taped the two hour session and Brian learned so much!
Another of my teachers is Mariano Cordoba whom I first met in 1959. Mariano was accompanist for Antonio and the Spanish Ballet. People told me, “Mariano only takes advanced students”! Gee, that is a great turn off if you are not advanced. Guess what? I asked Mariano if he took beginners. Mariano replied, “Of course”!
As for free Tabs, you can use them as a starting point or why not Tab something yourself? First you have to get a software application that will do what you want like TablEdit (my favorite). Then you have a choice – transpose from sound to paper what someone else has accomplished or create your own.
It really helps if you understand music – flamenco especially, as well as the software that you use. Trying to create music notation from flamenco is not easy and may not always be accurate. That is the nature of the music. It really helps to listen!
My take on learning flamenco guitar is that if you are serious you have to approach it in a concise manner. What do you want? Rumbas? Tangos? Or what? There is nothing wrong with the Gypsy Kings – what they do they do well. You must do your homework.
I am fortunate to have known people like Carlos Montoya and Sabicas and many more flamencos. They were so encouraging to me that I cannot express it in words. I like to encourage others, as did my mother, grandfather and so many others encourage my brother and I. Remember that Sabicas did not have a teacher – he taught himself. He would not teach his brother Diego who learned how to play flamenco guitar very well without the help of Sabicas.
Once you learn the basics you should try going off on your own and create your own sound. Why emulate someone else? Be yourself! Then you will truly learn flamenco!
My interest is Traditional Flamenco and that is a matter of choice. I have played for a number of well-known flamenco dancers and singers from Spain. I also did a number of solo tours so I think I know what I like.
You want to learn flamenco? My advice is to choose what area of flamenco you enjoy most. Learn basic technique! Apply basic techniques to one palo. Learn how to play that one palo with feeling. Be sure that it is simple. Who needs brilliant techniques who dazzle that audience and lack feeling? My greatest complements have come from flamencos from Spain who tell me that they felt my music.
As far as basic technique is concerned that is a great question! There are many ways to play basic techniques correctly. There is not one and only one way. True - some techniques you adopt may slow your picado or some other techinque. Such is life.
The reason that there are different flamenco techniques is simple! Guitarists in Spain did not have DVD’s or notation or established teachers in Spain. You learned from your father, or neighbor. Juan Serrano told me that the rasgueado he uses was taught to him by his father. It was based upon creating the sound of the plao – not the technique for the sake of the technique. This is typical of flamenco technique. If the sound is correct then the technique is too!
Do not expect to be a Sabicas or Paco de Lucia. If you start at about age four, live in Spain, and can hear flamenco music all around you that may help. How many of us have families to support and careers outside of flamenco? When I played professionally I practiced 10 hours a day and loved it. Attempt to do you best and enjoy what you are doing. It is meant to be fun and it is unless you expect more then is realistic.
As for me I am still learning and enjoying myself. My wife trained in flamenco cante and balie as a child and is my greatest critic. Playing music is my means of stress relief! If I can help someone learn anything about flamenco then I am happy. 
_____________________________
Tom
http://home.comcast.net/~flamencoguitar/flamenco.html
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Date Mar. 4 2006 21:08:50
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Miguel de Maria
Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ
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RE: Who writes such useless bad tabs... (in reply to Doitsujin)
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There is one way to free yourself of this whole teacher problem: work on your Ear. The Ear is so important to music, it's really the key. And the sad thing is there is a whole generation of players who ignore it. They use sheet music or tabs or DVDs and never learn how to use the ear. I know, because I was one of them! When you rely on a teacher or sheet music to show you the music, you are relying on an intermediary--a middleman. And like most middlemen, there is a cost and you may never be free of them.
My advice to any beginner or intermediate player is set aside time each day to work on the ear. Start with a single note, build to two, to three, to chords, etc. Every minute you spend on it will save you hours later!
_____________________________
Connect with me on Facebook, all the cool kids are doing it.
https://www.facebook.com/migueldemariaZ
Arizona Wedding Music Guitar
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Date Mar. 5 2006 0:38:00
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Miguel de Maria
Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ
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RE: Who writes such useless bad tabs... (in reply to Doitsujin)
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Tom,
I have a friend named Lydia Torrea, an American-born, half-Spanish (galician) dancer from Phoenix AZ. She had a nice career, dancing with Jose Greco during the time that Paco de Lucia (just a teenager) played in his troupe. Of course, I've grilled her about that many times. Did you know Paco would become a superstar? Answer: I knew he was good, but had no idea he would become world famous!
Apparently because they were short on cash, they often had to cook food in the hotels on hot-plates, frying up fish. She said that one time they brought in Sabicas to see Paco play, while they were cooking. According to her, Sabicas nodded his head at Paco's playing, saying "No esta mal," until they chased the two great guitarists out of the room because they were getting in the way!
With an ex-diva retired dancer, I suppose you never can know the truth of such stories, but it's a good one nevertheless!
_____________________________
Connect with me on Facebook, all the cool kids are doing it.
https://www.facebook.com/migueldemariaZ
Arizona Wedding Music Guitar
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Date Mar. 6 2006 13:07:22
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I heared the name, but dont ever heared his music..