RE: Picado's shoulder position

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davewphx

Posts: 126
Joined: Jul. 11 2011

RE: Picado's shoulder position (in reply to HolyEvil)

awesome photos Ricardo!

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Dave

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 24 2020 2:44:31

RobF

Posts: 1611
Joined: Aug. 24 2017

RE: Picado's shoulder position (in reply to davewphx)

quote:

awesome photos Ricardo!

They are. It must have been quite an honour to meet him.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 24 2020 3:03:23

machopicasso

Posts: 973
Joined: Nov. 27 2010

RE: Picado's shoulder position (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

I’m 5’6

OK, sure. But which of you is wearing heels?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 24 2020 5:33:31

Deniz

Posts: 91
Joined: Feb. 16 2020

RE: Picado's shoulder position (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

Good idea. Perhaps after you have completed your study and in depth analysis, you will be ready to get a Flamenco guitar?

I'm learning Flamenco on a 2000'ish Ibanez GA7 with nice string heigth at the fretboard, but it's quite high at the bridge and am always wondering if I suck because the guitar isn't a "real" flamenco guitar, or just because I suck

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 24 2020 17:13:06

devilhand

Posts: 1598
Joined: Oct. 15 2019

RE: Picado's shoulder position (in reply to devilhand)

By looking at the picture of Paco and Mr. Marlow, Paco is at least 175 cm. I would say he's 178 cm.

Grisha mentioned above Paco was about his height which is an average height of an adult male in the USA. He talks about his height at 1:00 in his recent video. Google says an average height of an adult male in the USA is 175.4 cm.

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Say No to Fuera de Compás!!!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 28 2020 20:30:25

kitarist

Posts: 1715
Joined: Dec. 4 2012

RE: Picado's shoulder position (in reply to devilhand)

quote:

Paco is at least 175 cm. I would say he's 178 cm.

Great job. Classical and flamenco guitar is normally played sitting, with one's hands, so overall height is irrelevant.

Guitar players have different torso lengths, arm lengths, proportions of upper-to-lower arm lengths, as well as different hand sizes and finger-length-to-palm-size proportions - all of which have a lot more relevance to guitar technique than body height.

Back to height - you sure you are not secretly dreaming of playing the octobass?

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Konstantin

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 28 2020 20:46:34

RobF

Posts: 1611
Joined: Aug. 24 2017

RE: Picado's shoulder position (in reply to devilhand)

Really enjoyed watching Grisha’s video. Thanks for that.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 28 2020 21:06:17

Richard Jernigan

Posts: 3430
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA

RE: Picado's shoulder position (in reply to devilhand)

175.4 cm = 5 ft 9 in sounds about right for Grisha. I first met him at a concert in a private house in Austin a few years ago. (The living room seated 60 people.) I spoke with him for a while after he and Jerome Mouffe played, Larisa spoke with him longer, in Russian.

I was surprised when I heard Grisha say he was 42 years old. He certainly looks younger, in person as well as in video.

I'm 6'4". Grisha is notably shorter, as are most American men. Larisa is 5'7", but she was wearing heels, so she and Grisha were near the same height. I would have thought Paco was a little taller, but I never met him.

RNJ

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 28 2020 21:18:38

devilhand

Posts: 1598
Joined: Oct. 15 2019

RE: Picado's shoulder position (in reply to kitarist)

quote:

Great job. Classical and flamenco guitar is normally played sitting, with one's hands, so overall height is irrelevant.

Guitar players have different torso lengths, arm lengths, proportions of upper-to-lower arm lengths, as well as different hand sizes and finger-length-to-palm-size proportions - all of which have a lot more relevance to guitar technique than body height.

You must be jumping to a wrong conclusion. There's always a high correlation between body and arm length which is crucial for the right hand posture. Maybe some might have a bit disproportioned body but this is the exception rather than the rule.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/7202060/

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Say No to Fuera de Compás!!!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 29 2020 11:49:16

devilhand

Posts: 1598
Joined: Oct. 15 2019

RE: Picado's shoulder position (in reply to Richard Jernigan)

I read several times you met Sabicas. I wonder how tall he was.

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Say No to Fuera de Compás!!!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 29 2020 11:54:35

Ricardo

Posts: 14801
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Picado's shoulder position (in reply to kitarist)

quote:

Back to height - you sure you are not secretly dreaming of playing the octobass?

Clearly devil wants to make a data chart which will reveal which guitar plantilla and scale length will be optimum for his own body type, so it will help him choose when it’s finally time to get an actual flamenco guitar.

I recommend he start with ukelele.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 29 2020 16:35:02

TonyGonzales84

Posts: 78
Joined: Apr. 23 2020
From: San Diego, CA

RE: Picado's shoulder position (in reply to davewphx)

What nut width should el diablito spec out on his tenor uke?

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Tony

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 29 2020 17:01:04

kitarist

Posts: 1715
Joined: Dec. 4 2012

RE: Picado's shoulder position (in reply to devilhand)

quote:

There's always a high correlation between body and arm length...

Heh; I knew you would go there. So if all you need is statistics, which is available for height as well as all else including standard deviations etc., why ask about heights of different individual persons? By asking about individual persons, you are implicitly acknowledging the significance of individual specifics and variability; you can't have it both ways - unless this is just trolling.

Regardless, you are also wrong about what you claim anyway - because you misunderstood what the paper says. They actually said (you even highlighted it(!)) that the correlation is highly significant (meaning high confidence that it is distinguishable from chance happenings); the correlation itself is not high.

Here's a sample of what is actually in the paper; see these clouds of dots with a straight line through them? Now look at the dots along any given height, as well as pick a dot value and look to see at how many different heights it occurs at. These are fairly low correlations, high variability; even though it is highly significant that the line's slope is positive.

Even in the video you posted of Grisha he basically disproves you about height's lock on body proportions - in answering about his height (people thinking he is really tall), he says he has a long torso for his height - you clearly have watched that answer re: height, and yet here you are....

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Konstantin

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 29 2020 18:07:56

TonyGonzales84

Posts: 78
Joined: Apr. 23 2020
From: San Diego, CA

RE: Picado's shoulder position (in reply to davewphx)

It's hard to not assume el diablon is not just trolling...

...I had been wondering if maybe Sr Cuernon was maybe looking to "prove" to himself, or someone, through mis-understanding and mis-applying statistical and probabilistic methods, that there's a perfectly legitimate reason for...any number of things. Keeping with the trolling idea, though, maybe he's actually some stud practitioner in the hidden arts using the Central Limit Theorem, and when he does show his work, it'll be like the old Ma and Pa Kettle routine.

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Tony

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 29 2020 21:36:02

Richard Jernigan

Posts: 3430
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA

RE: Picado's shoulder position (in reply to devilhand)

quote:

ORIGINAL: devilhand

I read several times you met Sabicas. I wonder how tall he was.

Not very tall. I would guess about 5'5" or 5'6"= about 165 or 167.6 cm.

He would show up sometimes at the Club "Zambra" in New York City, accompanied by one or another good looking blonde young woman, and a few young men. I remember the young men all being taller than Sabicas. I don't remember any of the women being shorter.

He played in San Antonio, Texas in 1965. He was a little shorter than my 5' 6 1/2" fiancee, and he had on boots with heels that were maybe 1 1/4".

I never saw Ramon Montoya--I was 11 years old when he died--but from his photos he wasn't very tall either. Nor was Javier Molina.

RNJ

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 30 2020 0:08:31

devilhand

Posts: 1598
Joined: Oct. 15 2019

RE: Picado's shoulder position (in reply to kitarist)

quote:

why ask about heights of different individual persons?

I'm asking to get a rough indication for the height of maestros. The sample size in the study above is small. But all in all you can see positive relationship between arm length and height.

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Say No to Fuera de Compás!!!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 1 2020 12:54:18

devilhand

Posts: 1598
Joined: Oct. 15 2019

RE: Picado's shoulder position (in reply to Richard Jernigan)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Jernigan

quote:

ORIGINAL: devilhand

I read several times you met Sabicas. I wonder how tall he was.

Not very tall. I would guess about 5'5" or 5'6"= about 165 or 167.6 cm.

He would show up sometimes at the Club "Zambra" in New York City, accompanied by one or another good looking blonde young woman, and a few young men. I remember the young men all being taller than Sabicas. I don't remember any of the women being shorter.

He played in San Antonio, Texas in 1965. He was a little shorter than my 5' 6 1/2" fiancee, and he had on boots with heels that were maybe 1 1/4".

I never saw Ramon Montoya--I was 11 years old when he died--but from his photos he wasn't very tall either. Nor was Javier Molina.

RNJ

Thanks for the reply. Looks like not only maestros but in general men born in the 1st half of the 20th century in Spain have an average height around 166 cm - 169 cm.