My new student Marlon Navarro negra

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Blind Dog

Posts: 37
Joined: Jul. 7 2020

My new student Marlon Navarro negra

So I decided on this Marlon Navarro flamenco negra. I've never played flamenco guitar even though I've loved spanish type music since I heard Paco de Lucia and Al DiMeola play Mediterranean Sundance over 40 years ago! So partially based on reviews I saw on this forum, and what looked like the best bang for the buck, I decided on Navarro and found this one at Memorial Music in Houston. I had played a Cordoba negra and blanca at Guitar Center and liked the sweeter warmer sound of the negra so that is what I ordered. I love this guitar! I know many of you have higher end guitars, but for a beginner at flamenco, this is more than I need from a quality standpoint. All solid spruce and palo escrito and what makes this unique for a student model is the ebony fretboard. And after playing steel string acoustics and electrics for years, I was afraid I would hate the 52mm nut width but I got used to it real fast! And nylon strings are so much easier on the fingers, I wasn't expecting that! So now I'm off to watch some good YouTube videos and learn those right hand techniques! Pictures attached.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 24 2020 3:56:45

AndresK

Posts: 309
Joined: Jan. 4 2019
From: Patras, Greece

RE: My new student Marlon Navarro negra (in reply to Blind Dog)

Thank you for sharing. Have a really good time with your new guitar! I hope it takes you to places you never been before. Happy "traveling" !

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 24 2020 5:20:22

TonyGonzales84

Posts: 78
Joined: Apr. 23 2020
From: San Diego, CA

RE: My new student Marlon Navarro negra (in reply to Blind Dog)

Congrats on your your new guitar. The Marlon Navarros really are a good bang for the buck. Five years ago I played a similar one to yours. That one had wooden pegs, a six-hole tie-block, and did not look to have an ebony fingerboard, but it definitely had nice workmanship, looked great and was very easy to play, for both hands. Have fun opening it up!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 24 2020 6:17:54

JasonM

Posts: 2055
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: My new student Marlon Navarro negra (in reply to Blind Dog)

Congrats thanks for sharing. I’ve never tired one of his guitars.

Not sure if it’s the perspective of the picture but it looks like the bridge is really offset back for compensation on the bass side? Even so al that matters is if it plays in tune.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 24 2020 15:53:40

Blind Dog

Posts: 37
Joined: Jul. 7 2020

RE: My new student Marlon Navarro negra (in reply to JasonM)

No, the bridge looks level and square to me, must just be the picture.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 24 2020 16:31:06

devilhand

Posts: 1598
Joined: Oct. 15 2019

RE: My new student Marlon Navarro negra (in reply to Blind Dog)

Your guitar looks nice. How high is the action at the bridge and the 12th fret?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 25 2020 13:51:07

Filip

Posts: 403
Joined: Apr. 23 2006
From: Paris

RE: My new student Marlon Navarro negra (in reply to Blind Dog)

Nice guitar. Do you have any recordings with it?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 25 2020 22:06:01

Blind Dog

Posts: 37
Joined: Jul. 7 2020

RE: My new student Marlon Navarro negra (in reply to devilhand)

I don't have a good way to measure the action, I guess I need to go to Home Depot and get a feeler gauge. I can tell you it feels low and I played several new classical guitars and it is lower than those. Once I can really measure I'll answer you more accurately.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 26 2020 16:57:16

Blind Dog

Posts: 37
Joined: Jul. 7 2020

RE: My new student Marlon Navarro negra (in reply to Filip)

I don't have any recordings yet. I do have recording equipment, but I am not a good guitar player in general and just starting flamenco, so I haven't thought about doing a recording. I'll try to do something just so you can see how it sounds.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 26 2020 16:58:48

Filip

Posts: 403
Joined: Apr. 23 2006
From: Paris

RE: My new student Marlon Navarro negra (in reply to Blind Dog)

Nice :)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 27 2020 16:18:25

Blind Dog

Posts: 37
Joined: Jul. 7 2020

RE: My new student Marlon Navarro negra (in reply to devilhand)

quote:

ORIGINAL: devilhand

Your guitar looks nice. How high is the action at the bridge and the 12th fret?

Well, I've discovered that measuring the action is not that easy. I bought some feeler gauges at Lowes and discovered they were oily when I got them home so I didn't want to use those, so I just took someone's suggestion and used stacked coin combinations. As best I can tell the action on both E strings at the 12th fret is 2.7 mm (two dimes) and 8 mm at the bridge (ruler). Probably both are off a little but close enough. Action is low enough, I wouldn't want it any lower.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 28 2020 2:40:45

devilhand

Posts: 1598
Joined: Oct. 15 2019

RE: My new student Marlon Navarro negra (in reply to Blind Dog)

quote:

Well, I've discovered that measuring the action is not that easy.

The action at the 12th fret is measured from top of the fret to bottom of the string. 2.7mm is good I guess. 8mm at the bridge is also optimal.

I read on the foro bass strings at the 12th fret usually have slightly higher action than treble strings. Maybe 3mm and 2.7mm respectively. This makes sense when you think bass strings vibrate more heavily than nylon treble strings. But the action at the bridge is more important for flamenco guitars.

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Say No to Fuera de Compás!!!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 28 2020 16:31:20

mark indigo

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007

RE: My new student Marlon Navarro negra (in reply to devilhand)

quote:

bass strings at the 12th fret usually have slightly higher action than treble strings. Maybe 3mm and 2.7mm respectively. This makes sense when you think bass strings vibrate more heavily than nylon treble strings. But the action at the bridge is more important for flamenco guitars.

both action at 12th fret and action at bridge are important.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 28 2020 19:28:52

Blind Dog

Posts: 37
Joined: Jul. 7 2020

RE: My new student Marlon Navarro negra (in reply to devilhand)

quote:

ORIGINAL: devilhand

quote:

Well, I've discovered that measuring the action is not that easy.

The action at the 12th fret is measured from top of the fret to bottom of the string. 2.7mm is good I guess. 8mm at the bridge is also optimal.

I read on the foro bass strings at the 12th fret usually have slightly higher action than treble strings. Maybe 3mm and 2.7mm respectively. This makes sense when you think bass strings vibrate more heavily than nylon treble strings. But the action at the bridge is more important for flamenco guitars.

OK cool, I learn something new on here every day. I didn't know action at the bridge was important at all. Is too low or too high typically more of a problem? Also - I just ordered one of those string action rulers so I can really measure it accurately. Not that it's going to change anything, I just like to have all the tools! Thanks.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 28 2020 19:31:45

devilhand

Posts: 1598
Joined: Oct. 15 2019

RE: My new student Marlon Navarro negra (in reply to mark indigo)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mark indigo

quote:

bass strings at the 12th fret usually have slightly higher action than treble strings. Maybe 3mm and 2.7mm respectively. This makes sense when you think bass strings vibrate more heavily than nylon treble strings. But the action at the bridge is more important for flamenco guitars.

both action at 12th fret and action at bridge are important.

Let me restate it. When it comes to lower action of flamenco guitar, we should be talking about the action at the bridge first. Not the action at the 12th fret. Because low action at the bridge already implies low action at the 12th fret. But not vice versa.

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Say No to Fuera de Compás!!!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 28 2020 22:18:56

mt1007

Posts: 162
Joined: Jan. 19 2011

RE: My new student Marlon Navarro negra (in reply to devilhand)

quote:

ORIGINAL: devilhand

quote:

ORIGINAL: mark indigo

quote:

bass strings at the 12th fret usually have slightly higher action than treble strings. Maybe 3mm and 2.7mm respectively. This makes sense when you think bass strings vibrate more heavily than nylon treble strings. But the action at the bridge is more important for flamenco guitars.

both action at 12th fret and action at bridge are important.

Let me restate it. When it comes to lower action of flamenco guitar, we should be talking about the action at the bridge first. Not the action at the 12th fret. Because low action at the bridge already implies low action at the 12th fret. But not vice versa.

Devilhand,

Although your statement seems logical, it is wrong. I've measured guitars with really low action at bridge(7.2mm) but really high action at 12th fret(3.5mm). The tools I used to take these measurements are the following:

https://www.stewmac.com/luthier-tools-and-supplies/types-of-tools/straightedges/string-action-gauge.html

https://www.stewmac.com/luthier-tools-and-supplies/types-of-tools/calipers/luthiers-digital-caliper.html

The guitar that gave this data ended up having really bad bowing problem/relief issues. I didn't end up buying do to this issue. To fix, it would need a re-fret job plus re-angling the fret board, etc..

Myself, I like guitars that have 7.5mm clearance at bridge and 2.25mm to 2.5mm bass side action at 12th fret with no string buzz or slight sizzle.

Guys, always go by objective truth. my 2 cents

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 28 2020 22:54:30

mark indigo

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007

RE: My new student Marlon Navarro negra (in reply to devilhand)

quote:

Let me restate it. When it comes to lower action of flamenco guitar, we should be talking about the action at the bridge first. Not the action at the 12th fret. Because low action at the bridge already implies low action at the 12th fret. But not vice versa.

get a flamenco guitar, when you have owned and played a few, then you can talk about flamenco guitars...

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 28 2020 23:26:38

JasonM

Posts: 2055
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: My new student Marlon Navarro negra (in reply to mt1007)

quote:

Myself, I like guitars that have 7.5mm clearance at bridge and 2.25mm to 2.5mm bass side action at 12th fret with no string buzz or slight sizzle.

This is exactly what I like. It’s not so easy to achieve as I discovered!. Very little wiggle room, and the top tension/string tension has to be right too. How stiff are your Devoe’s? Never played one. I read here they tend to be on the stiff side - but relative to what is the question. I like a stiffer top myself.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 28 2020 23:47:31

mt1007

Posts: 162
Joined: Jan. 19 2011

RE: My new student Marlon Navarro negra (in reply to JasonM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JasonM

quote:

Myself, I like guitars that have 7.5mm clearance at bridge and 2.25mm to 2.5mm bass side action at 12th fret with no string buzz or slight sizzle.

This is exactly what I like. It’s not so easy to achieve as I discovered!. Very little wiggle room, and the top tension/string tension has to be right too. How stiff are your Devoe’s? Never played one. I read here they tend to be on the stiff side - but relative to what is the question. I like a stiffer top myself.

Yo Jason,

On my 93 Devoe I got 7mm clearance at bridge and 2.5mm to 2.75 action at 12th fret depending on humidity conditions. It plays like butter, very responsive guitar. It's very open sounding. I have no way to measure top stiffness but I'd have to say average stiffness for the blanca.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 29 2020 0:19:26

JasonM

Posts: 2055
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: My new student Marlon Navarro negra (in reply to mt1007)

Nice! Thanks for the info!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 29 2020 14:52:28

Blind Dog

Posts: 37
Joined: Jul. 7 2020

RE: My new student Marlon Navarro negra (in reply to devilhand)

quote:

ORIGINAL: devilhand

Your guitar looks nice. How high is the action at the bridge and the 12th fret?

Just received my String Action Ruler I bought off ebay for $10. Looks like I have 9mm at the bridge, about 2.5 on the thin E string (1 string) and 2.75 on the high E (wound #6 string). All I know is it plays great and sounds great, especially for a student guitar.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 1 2020 19:57:29