Tango Two Finger Rasgueados

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mark51

Posts: 20
Joined: May 12 2020

Tango Two Finger Rasgueados

Why not use the index and middle fingers for the two finger tango rasgueado? I'm working on that now and most of the videos say don't use the middle finger - use the index and ring finger. Right now that feels very unnatural to me.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 9 2020 21:34:35

Mark2

Posts: 1871
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco

RE: Tango Two Finger Rasgueados (in reply to mark51)

You can use whatever fingers you want-it's the sound that matters. But, different fingers produce different sounds so if you want the sound of players who are using i and a, use i and a. It might feel weird at first but it's a very natural way of doing that ras. You can also do i up and then a,m, and i down. An extra stroke but also a very common sound.

Ricardo demonstrated the importance, and utility of that particular move in a video about fandangos.

Variety is the ticket. Get comfortable with as many ways as possible of expressing the compas. A singer once told me the goal was not to do 1,000 different things but to do a few things a thousand different ways.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 9 2020 21:52:55

gerundino63

Posts: 1743
Joined: Jul. 11 2003
From: The Netherlands

RE: Tango Two Finger Rasgueados (in reply to mark51)

The index and ring finger are most of the time more equal in length than the index and middle finger.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 9 2020 22:40:07

Ricardo

Posts: 14806
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Tango Two Finger Rasgueados (in reply to mark51)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mark51

Why not use the index and middle fingers for the two finger tango rasgueado? I'm working on that now and most of the videos say don't use the middle finger - use the index and ring finger. Right now that feels very unnatural to me.

Because the sound you are trying to reproduce (unless you want a unique sound?), is trebles, mids, basses in sequence chuck-ah boom. The middle fingers’s position, especially loaded on bent thumb, is such that it will also snap into the bass note, rather than what the ring finger can do, also strumming free of the thumb load position, which is a nice positioned target of the middle strings. I believe I demo that at elite guitarist.

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CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 10 2020 17:01:39

mark indigo

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007

RE: Tango Two Finger Rasgueados (in reply to mark51)

quote:

Why not use the index and middle fingers for the two finger tango rasgueado? I'm working on that now and most of the videos say don't use the middle finger - use the index and ring finger. Right now that feels very unnatural to me.

Habichuela does just that, uses m and i BUT he does the upstroke with m not i (i.e. m up, m down, i down)! He also uses that mechanism in other contexts to play 4 or 5 notes per beat. Miguel Angel Cortes (fellow Granaino) also does this, and it's very clear in his Encuentro video.

Oscar Herrero also teaches index and middle to play triplets in the Paso a Paso DVD's, but he is using the index to do the upstroke, and i was also shown this by a teacher back in the nineties (i.e. it's not unique to Herrero), but I never really got on with it. Just spotted someone else using i up, m down, i down to play Sevillanas here at 1:30:

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 10 2020 17:03:16

mark indigo

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007

RE: Tango Two Finger Rasgueados (in reply to mark51)

quote:

most of the videos say don't use the middle finger

just curious - what videos?

I also agree with the other posters:

quote:

if you want the sound of players who are using i and a, use i and a

and:

quote:

The index and ring finger are most of the time more equal in length than the index and middle finger.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 10 2020 17:39:45

Ricardo

Posts: 14806
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Tango Two Finger Rasgueados (in reply to mark indigo)

quote:

Habichuela does just that, uses m and i BUT he does the upstroke with m not i (i.e. m up, m down, i down)! He also uses that mechanism in other contexts to play 4 or 5 notes per beat. Miguel Angel Cortes (fellow Granaino) also does this, and it's very clear in his Encuentro video.

Oscar Herrero also teaches index and middle to play triplets in the Paso a Paso DVD's, but he is using the index to do the upstroke, and i was also shown this by a teacher back in the nineties (i.e. it's not unique to Herrero), but I never really got on with it. Just spotted someone else using i up, m down, i down to play Sevillanas here at 1:30:

Pretty sure he was asking about tango basic compas, not rolls or accents.

Although it’s good you pointed out Pepe because he has different techniques that actual make him have unique results, however subtle.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 10 2020 19:09:11

mark51

Posts: 20
Joined: May 12 2020

RE: Tango Two Finger Rasgueados (in reply to Ricardo)

Here's one as an example.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 10 2020 19:37:47

mark51

Posts: 20
Joined: May 12 2020

RE: Tango Two Finger Rasgueados (in reply to Ricardo)

Your video is one I've been watching :) Your explanation here makes sense. It's getting easier now that I'm on day #2 learning tango. I'm from the DC area, now living in Florida.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 10 2020 19:47:30

mark indigo

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007

RE: Tango Two Finger Rasgueados (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

Pretty sure he was asking about tango basic compas, not rolls or accents.

yeah, the Herrero example veered off topic a bit, but the Pepe Habichuela one is relevant:

"Pepe perfected this movemente [m up, m down, i down], by derivation from a rumba andaluza strumming (very similar to old tangos he used to play as a child in Granada. In this technique that he had learned from his father Tio José, he replaced the thumb of the strong beat by a golpe and the first two index finders by the middle finger."

[In place of p i i i (all down on each of 4 beats) he did golpe, m up, m down, i down on the 4 beats.]

"From that time onwards the movement was ready and it was just sufficient to take out the first beat and it's golpe to have a continuous rasgueado after some practising to increase the speed." [from Alain Faucher's "Flamenco Esencias" book]

I'm pretty sure Pepe has used this (mmi) where we would use iai in basic tangos compas, and certain Miguel Angel Cortes has.

But as you say,

quote:

Pepe... has different techniques that actual make him have unique results, however subtle.

I happened to spot the Sevillanas example and although a different palo of course the mechanism (however you do it) in Sevillanas is the same as Tangos but without the down up index on the 4th beat.

I learned i up, a down, m down, i down, for basic tangos compas first (i think maybe from the Paco Serrano Encuentro), and from there it was easy to drop the m finger to get the typical i up, a down, i down, which is what i use.

I have tried the m up, m down, i down, version, but find it really clunky and awkward so don't use it.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 10 2020 23:10:37