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an inauthentic 1922 Santos Hernandez
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Echi
Posts: 1131
Joined: Jan. 11 2013
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 RE: an inauthentic 1922 Santos Hernandez (in reply to eccullen)
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Rob, the question here is: was it Santos to make Manuel Ramirez great or viceversa? I am for the latter.
I think the genius here was Manuel Ramirez both for vision and know how. Santos and Esteso learnt more than the job from him and inherited the market niche after his death.
Ron’t get me wrong: Santos deserves the fame of being one the best makers ever and will achieve success also with his own firm.
Yet in your picture it seems like Manuel took advantage of the skills of Santos and I think it’s the opposite: the guidance, discernment of what works and what does not, the know how he learnt from Manuel.
The school matters, and much more one hundred years ago.
The same I’d say for Barbero or Arcangel. Without their master’s shop they would be not remembered.
The same for Ramirez III and his journeymen become later famous on their own (Bernabe, Contreras).
Many guitar makers of Granada couldn’t express their talent at all without the guidance and the shop (I refer mainly To the know how but also tools, moods and business) of Ferrer, Montero or Bellido.
Ecullen, sorry but It’s still hard to guess: I can say it’s compatible with a Santos guitar. If the label is authentic you won the lottery if not you must prove it’s a Santos by small evidences in the building details like the shape of the bracing, the shape of the block inside, linings etc.
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Jun. 24 2020 7:18:05
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RobF
Posts: 1611
Joined: Aug. 24 2017
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RE: an inauthentic 1922 Santos Hernandez (in reply to eccullen)
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quote:
We have a reliable opinion that its not authentic, not made by Santos Hernandez himself.
quote:
Here is a photo of the bracing: what a mess!
Does this lead to any clarification of the ambiguous authenticity?
quote:
..sorry but It’s hard to guess: it’s compatible with a Santos guitar. If the label is authentic you won the lottery.
Should not the opinion of a reliable source who has actually examined the instrument hold some weight here?
Or is this one of those things where small pictures get shopped around the internet until someone hears what they want to hear? If the holder of the original “reliable opinion” isn’t good enough, then each major continent has qualified persons who can examine the guitar and confirm whether this matter is worth pursuing, and can also recommend necessary following steps.
Sheesh...no offence, but this is ridiculous. I realize it might all be in fun, and may be with the best of intentions, but it’s off. The only advice worth its salt here is that if someone wants to evaluate their latest “find” they should bring it to an expert for a hands-on examination and recommended course of action. Someone has already examined the guitar and offered the opinion that it is not authentic. Out of respect for them, perhaps differing opinions could be be left to experts who have been given the same courtesy as the original evaluator and have been allowed to examine the instrument in the flesh? Otherwise, the Foro is potentially being abused as a bully pulpit.
The above rant is just my opinion, of course, and maybe I’m speaking out of turn, so apologies in advance...but the original request for information should at the very least be accompanied with better pictures and a lot more background. Again, just IMO.
*edit* I see you’ve added to your response while I was typing mine, Echi. Agreed, much more detail is required, and even more important is the onus for proof. The Foro is not capable of providing much more than well intentioned advice and direction.
*edit #2* P.S. my response was originally intended for Echi, but to save time on the quote insertion it ended up being directed to Ed. But, it probably just can be read as a response to the thread itself. I got thrown because it was implied that the guitar has already been examined by an expert and the opinion offered that it is not authentic. Then the bracing picture is accompanied with a reference to the authenticity as being “ambiguous”. I don’t know...
P.P.S. I agree with Echi’s sentiment concerning the association with Manuel Ramirez.
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Date Jun. 24 2020 7:45:51
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RobF
Posts: 1611
Joined: Aug. 24 2017
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RE: an inauthentic 1922 Santos Hernandez (in reply to Echi)
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quote:
Rob, I never meant to make an Online assessment .
I know.  I was just following rule 7 of the Foro TOS, which states no good deed is permitted to go unpunished. I was being a spoil sport, I guess. Sorry for coming across that way.
The Reyes comment was a joke, BTW. I was reminded of being once shown a violin and saying to the owner, hey that looks like a nice old Tyrolean fiddle, and the owner looked down at me and said, Noooo, it’s a mid 18th century Italian from (I can’t remember which region, I think it was Naples). I looked inside and commented that the label was also of a Tyrolean maker. The owner said, yeah, all labels are fake, this is clearly Italian. I figured it was time to keep my mouth shut, and shortly later excused myself. It was a nice fiddle, I liked it, it was pretty. I’m not an expert, but it was pretty clear it weren’t no 18th century Italian, everything pointed to Tyrolean, and it appeared to be an honest fiddle. So, maybe I was jumping the gun here.
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Jun. 25 2020 11:39:28
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Printable Version
. You may notice I didn’t give a definite answer (like yes it’s a Santos or viceversa) but just to share some considerations without any commercial purpose.
