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RE: Solo flamenco guitar - a new trend in classical guitar playing
Posts: 3430
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA
RE: Solo flamenco guitar - a new tre... (in reply to ernandez R)
quote:
ORIGINAL: ernandez R
That's it, that's what flamenco is to me, freedom.
HR, I hope you feel better soon. I'm glad flamenco is freedom for you.
I've quoted Amor Sirvent before on the Foro. She was the sister of Fernando, the house guitarist of the club Zambra in New York City, in the early 1960s. Though payos, they were both respected flamenco pros through and through.
Amor had a gift shop and flamenco dance studio near Dupont Circle in Washington, DC. After a visit to Sophocles Pappas's nearby Guitar Shop one Saturday, I wandered in off the street. I was in the Army, stationed at Aberdeen Proving Grounds, a little north of Baltimore.
I chatted with Amor for a while. She brought out a guitar she was selling "for a friend." It was a lot better than what I had at the time, but I couldn't afford it. I played a little. In my experience it was rare at that time to hear an American play in compas. I wasn't any good, but I could play in compas.
As she put the guitar away Amor asked me if I wanted to play for her dance class. I said I couldn't because I had no free time from the Army. Besides I only knew maybe three palos, more or less.
Then Amor said, "These American girls! They always want to express themselves. They don't understand that flamenco is rules, rules, rules!."
I play both classical and flamenco. When I inevitably get bored with classical, I get out a flamenco guitar and let it rip. Even with all the rules, it feels like freedom to me too.
RE: Solo flamenco guitar - a new tre... (in reply to ernandez R)
quote:
I was raised by a cow milking then Ferrier father, as a child I cranked the bellows while my father hammered horse shoes into shape. We had real hungry times with almost zerro food in the house. Does this make me Gitano? Later we lived in a single mom ghetto called the Slatter slums. Does this make me Gitano? I grew up with horses and I learned to ride as a child. Does that make me Gitano?
A buddy of mine in Sacromonte, who is about as Gitano and Flamenco as you can get, once said to me something to the effect of “I think Gitano is less about what’s in the blood than about what’s in the heart.” My Spanish is a work in progress, but I’m sure about the ‘in the heart’ portion, and the context of the conversation leads me to think that was the gist of it. He was talking about the importance of values and ideals when defining a person’s character.
My friend seems to have a thing about shoes. I think just about every shoe store from Granada to Almería has his nose prints on its window. We were walking by a shoe store in Centro once and he pulled me in. The proprietress showed him a few pairs of shoes and the word “Flamenco” popped up in their conversation a few times. Turns out they didn’t have anything that quite met his criteria. I have no idea. Nothing they were looking at in any remote way appeared to be “flamenco” to me. On one visit I made, I showed up wearing an old pair of brown Florsheim loafers, that I had worn for the trip primarily because they are comfortable and also are easy to slip in and out of at airport security. The first thing he said to me when we met, after hello, was to point to my feet and say ”Nice shoes, muy Flamenco”. Go figure...
Posts: 2521
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England
RE: Solo flamenco guitar - a new tre... (in reply to ernandez R)
Haha. Yeah the intro section! The tumbleweeds are strong in there. Infact this whole forum is a bit like the town of deadwood. Lawless and free. But that's great. Like Mark this was the first and only forum I've ever really participated in.
So recently when I went over to delcamp to ask a building question. I got a private message from the admin dude saying please follow the rules and go and introduce yourself then I'll post your question back in the relevant subsection and you'll be able to benefit from the wonderful knowledge of our members...or something. All felt a bit bloody sterile. I mean I get it.That's how these ' proper' forums do stuff.
I remember the great forum migration of (2012??). Tried to transfer over to a different modern platform and lasted about a day due to the rules, regulations and controlling of a certain Captain!
Not sure if any of this is relevant to devilhands original question. But I don't care.Haha. I'm enjoying reminiscing.
I also remember going on some other forum about something and asking a question. Then I got referred to as the OP. Which I've since understood is pretty normal. But I got pissed off and had words. that would never happen here. OP! Blah blah and that kind of crap. That's why it's great.
RE: Solo flamenco guitar - a new tre... (in reply to Richard Jernigan)
quote:
flamenco is to me, freedom
(ernandez R)
quote:
flamenco is rules, rules, rules!
I think the real juice of flamenco is found where both of these things intersect. I think it needs the constraint of "rules" to kick against, I think it is about striving for maximum freedom within the restriction of the rules. Without the rules it dissolves into chaos, and with all rules and no freedom it is suffocated and dies.
Posts: 14797
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: Solo flamenco guitar - a new tre... (in reply to mark indigo)
quote:
ORIGINAL: mark indigo
quote:
flamenco is to me, freedom
(ernandez R)
quote:
flamenco is rules, rules, rules!
I think the real juice of flamenco is found where both of these things intersect. I think it needs the constraint of "rules" to kick against, I think it is about striving for maximum freedom within the restriction of the rules. Without the rules it dissolves into chaos, and with all rules and no freedom it is suffocated and dies.
“There is no true freedom without discipline. That’s why I keep working!”- John Mclaughlin
RE: Solo flamenco guitar - a new tre... (in reply to mark indigo)
quote:
ORIGINAL: mark indigo
quote:
I will never play flamenco puro
why not? because you don't want to, or because you think you can't?
I wonder what "flamenco puro" means to you? what do you think it is? (genuinely interested in your take on it)
Mark, Wanted to answer these two questions when I was more lucid but that's not happening any time soon, so I'll answer them now, after my half glass of wine, a solid hour of string stretching, and even played the Boss to sleep.
Why I never play puro? I'm think this is wrong actually, I'm working on it, and feel I might get there in a couple years. I've used my body hard and broke it a few times doing what i love. My mind is not what it was, my fingers don't fallow orders like they did in the past, and I've got some kind of Parkinsonien tremor thing creeping up on me. And F if I didn't get run down by a moose this winter :/
I am stuck with the handful of first position cords I learned in my 20s although I've been doing battle with Dm and I'm not winning. No worries I can use what I have. I shuffle the E cord form up and down the neck accordingly and the Am and A also. I've got the other first position cords locked down. I can play scales but have been working the Phrygian Dom mostly and inter playing with my cords I'm having a good time. Definitely not puro, think large pink migratory waterfowl.
I'm working hard on my compas, I get an hour on the metronome every day. I've got a good sounding three finger rasgao and been building on my i up, ami down rasguideo. Ricardo had posted a video a few,weeks ago, might have been that Giants of Guitar series? Anyway I used that as a foundation and jut keep working on it on practice and then incorporating into my flamingo jam sessions.
What is puro to me? I'm a Paco Pena man. I love the early PDL also but not any of his jazzminco. All the old masters from the earliest recordings and many current artest as long as they don't slide into jazz and for dogs sake don't turn into a sappy elevator music cliché: think punk rock rather the Burt Baccarat. To be honest I'm open to anything that moves me regardless of genre, country of origin, language; I've always been drawn to eastern music and find Bach boring. I enjoy the Cante but the boss definitely does not. Been trying to get her interested in the Baile but no joy...
I know some of you are cringing at the thought of half of this but don't worry, I'm not. I'm loving the adventure. I'll do,my best to make you proud but really I've only me to answer for. Don't get me wrong, I would love to be the candle carrier, even the torch, but I'll be happy if I can be a little spark that lights a flame of flamenco with something I play. The realist in me laughs, and reminds me, better luck with one of your guitars, ah yes there is that.
HR
_____________________________
I prefer my flamenco guitar spicy, doesn't have to be fast, should have some meat on the bones, can be raw or well done, as long as it doesn't sound like it's turning green on an elevator floor.
RE: Solo flamenco guitar - a new tre... (in reply to Richard Jernigan)
Speaking as a n00b to both this forum and flamenco in general ... this is my second attempt to get involved in the foro, I first tried about 2 years ago when I first started playing and drifted away pretty quickly.
The reason i didn't stick around was not that anyone was unwelcoming, far from it - I posted an intro and got loads of really friendly replies (I think Piwin was one of the most welcoming to me as well ... cheers Piwin), advice on both teachers and places to watch flamenco in London and a really friendly atmosphere. I also posted a video of myself playing a simple escobilla and got lots of helpful technique advice.
No, the reason i drifted away wasn't feeling unwelcome but that there simply wasn't much for a beginner to talk about on here - not a criticism of anyone at all, just an observation. There are lots of very experienced flamenco aficionados here and 99% of discussions, whether about technique, theory, luthery or history or whatever are frankly over my head. I realised the only way to be regularly contributing would be if I posted my own thread every 3 days with a new "n00b" question about how to count bulerías (shout out to everyone who helped me on that thread) or where on the body I should rest my right arm.
I could easily do that, I have enough questions! But I also understand that the enjoyment for experienced players does not consist of wading through a sea of basic questions they answered 30 years ago and every month since.
RE: Solo flamenco guitar - a new tre... (in reply to ernandez R)
quote:
ORIGINAL: ernandez R I'm a Paco Pena man.
Me too, Paco Peña was the sole reason I got into flamenco. I bought a CD of his on a whim once and it quickly became one of my absolute favourites, a total outlier amongst all the rock/punk/indie I usually listened to. For about 7 or 8 years I listened to it at least weekly but never made the effort to explore any more flamenco. So for all that time, about 20 tracks by one solo guitarist were the only flamenco I knew or cared about, I didn't know what a palo was, I didn't know about compás, i barely cared that there was also dancing and singing ... I had worked out on my own guitar that the sequence of notes E-F-G# and chords Fmaj --> E maj sounded really flamenco but didn't know why. I didn't know any context for this, all I knew was this guy made a guitar sound absolutely amazing and I loved it.
At some point, (I think after a holiday in Andalusia and a tourist flamenco show) I thought, this is ridiculous I really need to know more about this form and went from there.
But yeah, for years flamenco to me was only Paco Peńa. Ans I'm genuinely still not bored of that album, if it was still the only flamenco I knew I'd still love it.
Posts: 3458
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
RE: Solo flamenco guitar - a new tre... (in reply to ernandez R)
quote:
I'm a Paco Pena man. I love the early PDL also but not any of his jazzminco.
My all-time favorite has always been Sabicas. Among those tocaors who currently run the international circuit Paco Pena is the most "traditional," and therefore the one I most appreciate. I would place Paco Cepero at the top for accompaniment.
I appreciate that Paco de Lucia stretched the bounds of flamenco, and I liked his earlier stuff. I attended three of his performances over the years but grew a bit tired of him when he turned his group into more of an ensemble by adding a bass guitar and a harmonica.
Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white, With the name of the late deceased, And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here, Who tried to hustle the East."
Posts: 3458
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
RE: Solo flamenco guitar - a new tre... (in reply to Ricardo)
quote:
“There is no true freedom without discipline. That’s why I keep working!”- John Mclaughlin
Very true. And that goes for any discipline in which one engages. It goes for education as well. I have known some parents who thought that to impose basics on children would stifle their "creativity." What rubbish. Whether its the study of English, History, Music, Art, or any other subject, the fundamentals must be learned in order to build a base from which one can exercise creativity. Without first having an understanding of the fundamentals as a base, so-called "creativity" usually descends into chaos.
Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white, With the name of the late deceased, And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here, Who tried to hustle the East."
RE: Solo flamenco guitar - a new tre... (in reply to BarkellWH)
quote:
ORIGINAL: BarkellWH
quote:
I'm a Paco Pena man. I love the early PDL also but not any of his jazzminco.
My all-time favorite has always been Sabicas. Among those tocaors who currently run the international circuit Paco Pena is the most "traditional," and therefore the one I most appreciate. I would place Paco Cepero at the top for accompaniment.
I appreciate that Paco de Lucia stretched the bounds of flamenco, and I liked his earlier stuff. I attended three of his performances over the years but grew a bit tired of him when he turned his group into more of an ensemble by adding a bass guitar and a harmonica.
Bill
Sabicas is the other guitarist alongside PP who I always love. I guess I'm a traditionalist too. Also not interested in bass guitars and harmonicas etc.
RE: Solo flamenco guitar - a new tre... (in reply to Inglés)
quote:
the reason i drifted away wasn't feeling unwelcome but that there simply wasn't much for a beginner to talk about on here.... I realised the only way to be regularly contributing would be if I posted my own thread every 3 days with a new "n00b" question....
I could easily do that, I have enough questions! But I also understand that the enjoyment for experienced players does not consist of wading through a sea of basic questions they answered 30 years ago and every month since.
You can use the search to check if your question has already been answered, you can add to an old thread with further questions on the topic, or start a new one. Probably there are a bunch of other lurkers with the same question, so do it for them!
RE: Solo flamenco guitar - a new tre... (in reply to Inglés)
quote:
I guess I'm a traditionalist too.
I have a problem with this terminology, as Ramon Montoya was an innovator, Sabicas was an innovator, Niño Ricardo was an innovator.... the "tradition" is one of innovation....
What you have with Montoya, Ricardo and Sabicas are snapshots of the state or the art as it was at the time they recorded. Don't forget the times they lived in, socially, materially and politically, the access to other music they didn't have, the level of technology that wasn't available. I prefer the term "historical" to "traditional" to describe them.
I totally love the music they recorded, but also Tomatito, Vicente Amigo, Gerardo Nuñez, Rafael Riqueni and of course Paco de Lucía, who's early music I would put into the category with the early maestros and later stuff with the second group (IMO)
I also am not a fan of bass, flute, harmonica etc. and really just don't get the trendency for cheesy-listening elevator music like Vicente's boleros, but i just skip those tracks....
Posts: 3458
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
RE: Solo flamenco guitar - a new tre... (in reply to mark indigo)
quote:
I have a problem with this terminology, as Ramon Montoya was an innovator, Sabicas was an innovator, Niño Ricardo was an innovator.... the "tradition" is one of innovation....
I also am not a fan of bass, flute, harmonica etc. and really just don't get the trendency for cheesy-listening elevator music like Vicente's boleros, but i just skip those tracks....
I realize the term "tradition" in flamenco carries some questions, which is why in my comment above I placed it in quotes. Nevertheless, having placed it in quotes, I thought it would be understood that I meant earlier tocaors such as Sabicas and Nino Ricardo, as opposed to most of those today. I do understand that in that context, today's "innovation" becomes yesterday's "tradition."
As an aside, a few years ago on the Foro I commented that I thought much of Vicente Amigo's playing sounded like elevator music, and I almost got "run out of Dodge."
Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white, With the name of the late deceased, And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here, Who tried to hustle the East."
Posts: 3458
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
RE: Solo flamenco guitar - a new tre... (in reply to mark indigo)
quote:
The term "traditional" is understood, but I question it.
Speaking of "tradition" and other instruments accompanying flamenco guitar, I have a double CD album entitled: "Ramon Montoya: El Genio De La Guitarra Flamenca, Grabaciones Historicas 1923 - 1936." There are several pieces with Montoya accompanied by a gentleman named F. Vilchea playing a saxophone.
Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white, With the name of the late deceased, And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here, Who tried to hustle the East."
RE: Solo flamenco guitar - a new tre... (in reply to mark indigo)
quote:
ORIGINAL: mark indigo
You can use the search to check if your question has already been answered, you can add to an old thread with further questions on the topic, or start a new one. Probably there are a bunch of other lurkers with the same question, so do it for them!
I imagine I will, hopefully I won't bore too many people with too many easy questions!
quote:
ORIGINAL: mark indigo
I have a problem with this terminology, as Ramon Montoya was an innovator, Sabicas was an innovator, Niño Ricardo was an innovator.... the "tradition" is one of innovation....
What you have with Montoya, Ricardo and Sabicas are snapshots of the state or the art as it was at the time they recorded. Don't forget the times they lived in, socially, materially and politically, the access to other music they didn't have, the level of technology that wasn't available. I prefer the term "historical" to "traditional" to describe them.
Tomayto, tomahto, traditional, historical, etc. Whatever you want to call it.
My point was really about acknowledging something I learnt about myself from BarkellWH's post - I don't know enough about the history of flamenco and development of styles and techniques to easily distinguish modern from "traditional" styes (outside obvious differences in recording/production). So was interested to learn that both my two favourites would be considered "traditional"
Posts: 2521
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England
RE: Solo flamenco guitar - a new tre... (in reply to Inglés)
quote:
Sabicas is the other guitarist alongside PP who I always love. I guess I'm a traditionalist too. Also not interested in bass guitars and harmonicas etc.
Modern or whatever you wanna call it. Non traditional... doesn't have to contain any extra instruments by definition. Most of the 'modern' stuff (or current is better) that i listen to doesn't have this extra stuff.
But yeah skip the tracks if they do.
Although saying that...Antonio Reys Buleria, Dos partes de mi. It's an amazing composition for me. but the album version has some horrible pop vocals and bass etc. I really wanna listen to that just raw. Guitar and cajon/palmas. Luckily its exactly like that on youtube!
RE: Solo flamenco guitar - a new tre... (in reply to Inglés)
quote:
Tomayto, tomahto, traditional, historical, etc. Whatever you want to call it.
My point was really about acknowledging something I learnt about myself from BarkellWH's post - I don't know enough about the history of flamenco and development of styles and techniques to easily distinguish modern from "traditional" styes (outside obvious differences in recording/production). So was interested to learn that both my two favourites would be considered "traditional"
I don't like the splitting up of flamenco into different compartments with these different labels... it can be very divisive, and I don't think it reflects reality. The closer I focus in the harder it becomes to draw any sort of definitive line between them anyway, more of a spectrum.
Then there is the sense that the term "traditional" carries a sort of weight to it, an authority, and an implication that it has always been a certain way from time immemorial, when that also is not so simple or clear cut.
The bulerías and tangos that Paco Peña recorded in the mid-seventies have triplet (3 notes per beat) alzapua in the bulerias and 4 note per beat (semi-quavers/16ths) alzapua in the tangos. AFAIK these are both innovations of Paco de Lucía from the early seventies (if anyone has earlier examples and/or from other guitarists please post). So what's going on? Is Paco de Lucía really "traditional" or Paco Peña really "modern"? Or should we dispense with the labels altogether in favour of a more nuanced approach?
Paco Peña, and to some extent Sabicas, are special cases in a way because both established solo careers outside Spain, so does that put them outside the "tradition"? And both are known as soloists which is not the "traditional" role of the flamenco guitar...
I think also the more you get into the cante the less important it is to make these distinctions between styles of guitar - I have great recordings of both Sabicas and Rafael Riqueni accomanying Enrique Morente, and they are both great. I think Anders said on here that singers don't care whether you play in a style of modern or older style as long as you accompany the cante properly.
Another example - looking at really old pictures of guitarists many of them held the guitar with the waist on their left leg, not the "traditional" way with the lower bout on the right leg, so what was happening there? Was there a different way to hold the guitar BEFORE what we know as the "traditional" way? Or were there different ways to hold the guitar before the lower bout on the right leg became THE way? And when did that happen, around 1920? If so that way of holding the guitar lasted until about 1970, so that's 50 years, and guitarists have been holding the guitar with the waist on the right leg with the leg crossed (Paco de Lucía) or on a footstool (Manolo Sanlucar) since then, which is another 50 years, so that should be long enough for the Paco de Lucía way to be "traditional".... to me the whole idea of "traditional" is kinda absurd....
There are loads more examples I could pull out - Pepe Habichuela said he was "too modern for the traditionalists and too traditional for the modernists" - Moraíto was regarded as the archetypal traditional accompanist but he said he was from the "school of Paco de Lucía" - and on and on....
We all have tastes and personal preferences, each to their own, "el libro de sabores es blanco" - I'm not knocking anyone's taste or preferences, only the pigeonholing and labelling, and the way those tastes and preferences seem to get turned into rigid categories and rules and divisions and partisanship, and I think flamenco is bigger and more messy, nuanced, complex, beautiful and AMAZING than any of them.
RE: Solo flamenco guitar - a new tre... (in reply to mark indigo)
quote:
ORIGINAL: mark indigo
I don't like the splitting up of flamenco into different compartments with these different labels... it can be very divisive, and I don't think it reflects reality. The closer I focus in the harder it becomes to draw any sort of definitive line between them anyway, more of a spectrum.
Then there is the sense that the term "traditional" carries a sort of weight to it, an authority, and an implication that it has always been a certain way from time immemorial, when that also is not so simple or clear cut.
The bulerías and tangos that Paco Peña recorded in the mid-seventies have triplet (3 notes per beat) alzapua in the bulerias and 4 note per beat (semi-quavers/16ths) alzapua in the tangos. AFAIK these are both innovations of Paco de Lucía from the early seventies (if anyone has earlier examples and/or from other guitarists please post). So what's going on? Is Paco de Lucía really "traditional" or Paco Peña really "modern"? Or should we dispense with the labels altogether in favour of a more nuanced approach?
Paco Peña, and to some extent Sabicas, are special cases in a way because both established solo careers outside Spain, so does that put them outside the "tradition"? And both are known as soloists which is not the "traditional" role of the flamenco guitar...
I think also the more you get into the cante the less important it is to make these distinctions between styles of guitar - I have great recordings of both Sabicas and Rafael Riqueni accomanying Enrique Morente, and they are both great. I think Anders said on here that singers don't care whether you play in a style of modern or older style as long as you accompany the cante properly.
Another example - looking at really old pictures of guitarists many of them held the guitar with the waist on their left leg, not the "traditional" way with the lower bout on the right leg, so what was happening there? Was there a different way to hold the guitar BEFORE what we know as the "traditional" way? Or were there different ways to hold the guitar before the lower bout on the right leg became THE way? And when did that happen, around 1920? If so that way of holding the guitar lasted until about 1970, so that's 50 years, and guitarists have been holding the guitar with the waist on the right leg with the leg crossed (Paco de Lucía) or on a footstool (Manolo Sanlucar) since then, which is another 50 years, so that should be long enough for the Paco de Lucía way to be "traditional".... to me the whole idea of "traditional" is kinda absurd....
There are loads more examples I could pull out - Pepe Habichuela said he was "too modern for the traditionalists and too traditional for the modernists" - Moraíto was regarded as the archetypal traditional accompanist but he said he was from the "school of Paco de Lucía" - and on and on....
We all have tastes and personal preferences, each to their own, "el libro de sabores es blanco" - I'm not knocking anyone's taste or preferences, only the pigeonholing and labelling, and the way those tastes and preferences seem to get turned into rigid categories and rules and divisions and partisanship, and I think flamenco is bigger and more messy, nuanced, complex, beautiful and AMAZING than any of them.
I agree with most of what you say here, as it applies to all music indeed all artforms. I would point out one thing though, in defence of applying labels - to someone like me who is trying to understand flamenco better from a base of close to zero (and with no formal learning process), it is useful to simplify. As long as I understand that it is a simplification, and I shouldn't take it too seriously, it is nonetheless giving me a broad-brush explanation which helps me understand what I am hearing a little better. baby steps, basically.
RE: Solo flamenco guitar - a new tre... (in reply to mark indigo)
Mark, Just wanted to say this makes total sense, but going into lurk mode for a few as I’m dealing with a lot of pain... :/ Be back shortly
HR
_____________________________
I prefer my flamenco guitar spicy, doesn't have to be fast, should have some meat on the bones, can be raw or well done, as long as it doesn't sound like it's turning green on an elevator floor.
RE: Solo flamenco guitar - a new tre... (in reply to Richard Jernigan)
Re: Paco Pena
I started out playing Black Sabbath and Jethro Tull with only a vague notion of "spanish guitar". I always took an interest in little snippets in the rock world like the intro to Roundabout by Yes, or some Alice Cooper track that I can't remember from the "...Goes to Hell" album. On a spring break road trip, sometime around 1996, I bought a CD in the Carlsbad Caverns gift shop titled "Desert Guitar". Yeah, some of it is cheesy but I listened to it again a few years ago and some of those tracks contain some very high quality classical and folk-ish tunes by an unknown guitarist. Anyway, I started asking questions and reading and somewhere the word "flamenco" got lodged in my head and I went searching the music stores in NW Arkansas. I found two CDs: Paco Pena's "Azahara" and one just titled "Flamenco" which I later learned was Carlos Montoya with one track from Sabicas (Fantasia Inca). The Montoya stuff made no sense to me and still doesn't. Azahara took quite a few listens to sink in but this was my total hooking point. I mean, really hooked. I arranged a study abroad to Sevilla with flamenco lessons being my primary goal. In 1999, Antonio Gamez helped me buy my first flamenco guitar and got me up and running. PDL was on full rotation during this time.
Anyway, I"ve listened to too many guitarists to list since then, modern and old-school. I still think Paco Pena is fantastic. Even when he plays the same old, same old, "traditional", he's got a certain bite and roar that I love. Maybe it's whoever hooks you first or maybe he's really got a little something special.
RE: Solo flamenco guitar - a new tre... (in reply to James Ashley Mayer)
quote:
Even when he plays the same old, same old, "traditional"
when does he do that? Are you talking about his recordings from the 70's? 80's? (I have most if not all of them, some on vinyl that have never been re-released on CD), live shows in the 90's? 00's?
His very early recordings show influence of Niño Ricardo for sure, if that's what you mean. He has also covered pieces from Esteban de Sanlucar (like PDL did a bit earlier) and Sabicas.
I already pointed out in the mid-70's tangos and bulerías he was adopting some new (at the time) ideas from Paco de Lucía.
You mentioned "Paco Pena's "Azahara"" (late 80's) - I think that has a Tangos he plays in Eb/D#, also he plays 4 notes per beat (16ths/semiquaver) alzapua in the Alegrias and Fandangos, I don't think anyone did that before Paco de Lucia in the early seventies....
On his last live album he quoted Rafael Riqueni in the Soleá....
If you've seen his live shows with singers and dancers he brings younger generation guitarists with more "modern" style who do maybe a bit more of the accompanying, but they play together, the compás is the same!
I really like how he does that, he comes across as very humble, and it's nice to see the generations mixing and playing together, the older ones passing on their things and adopting some of the younger ones things.
The "tradition" is not static. Sure, he hasn't innovated in the same way as his contemporary Paco de Lucía, but he hasn't just played the same stuff in the same way for his whole career.
RE: Solo flamenco guitar - a new tre... (in reply to Richard Jernigan)
Mark, I agree with everything you just wrote. No argument from me. However, I do have one CD of his where half of it is direct Nino Ricardo covers and I would say that, in context, that's a bit of "same old, same old". That's not a bad thing, just a very familiar well-worn path for most of us. I was just noting that I really like what PP adds to those covers.
"Riomar", the fandangos de Huelva from "Azahara" is one of my favorite all-time solos. As far as I know, that's an original composition (of Paco Pena)
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