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Solo flamenco guitar - a new trend in classical guitar playing
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ernandez R
Posts: 737
Joined: Mar. 25 2019
From: Alaska USA
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 RE: Solo flamenco guitar - a new tre... (in reply to devilhand)
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Well they chased me out of the Dellcamp, something about my strings being too low, my incomprehensible rhythm, and some old fart with glasses and sausage like digits complaining about saving the Delcamp from my busy fingers. /s Actually they tossed me out because my spelling is so bad.
Both websites compliment each other and plenty of helpful people on both. A number of flamenco builders hang out on the luthiery forum and I come across a couple of playing threads every once in a while. Many do both but some under different names.
There was a software change at the delcamp a few monthes ago which made it difficult for me to post photos so I kinda gave up and migrated over here. I still check on both a few times a day with my crushed foot giving me plenty of time :/
I had discovered both forums about the same time and I started a few build threads over there under the some name. There was an issue with logging in for the first time here on the foro and it took about six months for me to fuguir it out and trick both systems into playing together and letting me in. Wish I could remember what it was?
Over the last year I've thought about PMing Simon some ideas I had to make the Foro a more inclusive community. It's tough, I'm new here myself but I did do the obligatory one year lurk to get an understanding of the community and I've participated on a few aviation forums as a knowledge leader, Im also aware I'm the neophyte here on the foro.
Here is an example. When I was able to log in I wrote a longish introduction on the intro page. Crickets. Not a single welcome to the foro. Hmm, I'm fairly thick skinned and I'm way over the popularity contest part of my life but I have to tell you I did have a ting of regret. It wasn't a good sign. No welcome to the Foro, no what are your interest, I see you are a builder and a player, check out this thread or this tread... This person is really helpful with playing questions, this one has a lifetime of flamenco history to share...
It's a community but it doesn't build itself. It seems some key players have passed and left a big vacuum. I'm really not that leader and in RL am kind of an anti social hard ass, in my aviation world it was my way, perfect, or get the F out of my hangar. I am good with ideas and I'm not afraid to speak up. You will find if I post something contentious I'll often start with somethings depreciating about myself so I don't come off like some know it all nuwbe.
I'm not sure if Diablohands was being serious or sarcastic ( /s this helps) but I feel Sugovia drove a wedge between players of Spanish guitar for his own gain. Oy, Another flame suit subject for another time.
It's up to us. The Foro has a big online presence but I feel it could be so much more, not bigger but more valuable. I'm not the person to make this happen but I can be part of the family. On another Foro thread I wrote about a dream I had where I found some kid banging bularious on some cheap plywood guitar and I give him one of mine hoping to inspire. I guess what I'm asking is perhaps we all ask what we can give to grow our Flamenco community? Ricardo offered up half price lessons and adds content daily, Tom shares his lifetime of building experience, many others too. But what we need to do is make attention to the newest members of the Foro and get them hooked, make them realize we are a friendly, quirky, slightly dysfunctional family, who offers up knowledge and lifetimes of experience. They are out there only It's up to you and me to make them welcolm.
HR
ps. I'm laid up with a crushed foot and pain pills galor, dismiss anything that seems... drug induced :)
_____________________________
I prefer my flamenco guitar spicy,
doesn't have to be fast,
should have some meat on the bones,
can be raw or well done,
as long as it doesn't sound like it's turning green on an elevator floor.
www.instagram.com/threeriversguitars
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Date May 23 2020 2:07:15
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RobF
Posts: 1611
Joined: Aug. 24 2017
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RE: Solo flamenco guitar - a new tre... (in reply to ernandez R)
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HR, just enjoy the coming summer, stay healthy, and get back on your feet. You are welcome here!
Like you, I lurked before I signed up, but it was for more like ten years! Every time I’d come around and decide to join some seemingly minor skirmish between members would erupt into open warfare and I’d slowly back away, thinking “these guys are all nuts!”. But I’ve learned so much from this place over the years that when Simon came close to closing it a couple of years back I decided to get off the pot and try to contribute something, instead of just sitting quietly and only taking. It’s not always easy, there are great people hanging out here, but we do tend to speak our minds. I like that people feel comfortable enough with the place to do that, to me it’s a healthy dynamic.
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Date May 23 2020 2:40:07
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mark indigo
Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
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RE: Solo flamenco guitar - a new tre... (in reply to ernandez R)
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quote:
It's up to us. The Foro has a big online presence but I feel it could be so much more, not bigger but more valuable. I'm not the person to make this happen but I can be part of the family. On another Foro thread I wrote about a dream I had where I found some kid banging bularious on some cheap plywood guitar and I give him one of mine hoping to inspire. I guess what I'm asking is perhaps we all ask what we can give to grow our Flamenco community? Ricardo offered up half price lessons and adds content daily, Tom shares his lifetime of building experience, many others too. But what we need to do is make attention to the newest members of the Foro and get them hooked, make them realize we are a friendly, quirky, slightly dysfunctional family, who offers up knowledge and lifetimes of experience. They are out there only It's up to you and me to make them welcolm.
you are now officially the foro's welcome committee. Anyone posts an intro you can welcome them. problem solved.... 
(or maybe that should be a tongue in cheek  )
I never did one of those intro's, i still find what and how much to say about myself online that can be viewed by unknown numbers of unknown people really weird. this is the first and only forum i have participated in, and it's only my total and utter obsession with flamenco that brings and keeps me here, not so much the "social" side, which has often been pretty anti-social... (I have gone AWOL a couple of times for 3-6 months after particularly bad interactions).
what i don't want to see is the foro becoming an all inclusive eclectic acoustic guitar jazz classical folk flamenco fusion forum.
(I used to get a what's on magazine when i lived in a big city and there were endless bands on the "vibrant" local live music scene that seemed to think the way to attract the biggest audience was to put as many buzz words and genre types as possible in their publicity hype, so every live band seemed to be an eclectic-electric-acoustic-folk-world-jazz-classical-punk-reggae-soul-funk-flamenco-hip-hop-trip-hop-flip-flop-fusion band - and they all sounded exactly the same kind of boring plodding pop-rock, like if you mix all the colours together you just get brown.....)
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Date May 23 2020 12:13:14
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RobF
Posts: 1611
Joined: Aug. 24 2017
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RE: Solo flamenco guitar - a new tre... (in reply to devilhand)
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quote:
Wyhere are all these aspiring young classical guitar players on the foro?
I think, if you are referring to his generalization that many younger players today are tending towards and attracted to virtuosic performance and then refers to flamenco techniques as an inspiration for some of the aspects of his composition, it would be a mistake to assume every aspiring guitarist would naturally gravitate towards flamenco to satisfy their appreciation of virtuosity. First off, there is more to Flamenco than that, be it in guitar, dance, or cante, and, in my opinion anyways, people who are attracted to Flamenco for that reason alone are missing the point. Again, just my opinion.
There are so many genres that allow for virtuosity - jazz, rock, bluegrass, well , pretty well any genre, actually, so why single out Flamenco? I also think Fisk might be doing his students a bit of a disservice when he attributes a gravitation towards virtuosic performance to youthfulness.
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Date May 23 2020 15:42:30
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BarkellWH
Posts: 3458
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
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RE: Solo flamenco guitar - a new tre... (in reply to Andy Culpepper)
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quote:
Now forums like this are dinosaurs compared to Facebook, etc.
Call me a dinosaur, Andy, as I much prefer the Foro to anything that might be on Facebook. In fact, I have never had a Facebook account, nor have I engaged in social media of any type, be it Instagram or other popular platforms. I find all I need in terms of flamenco right here on the Foro. And I have learned a lot, particularly from the luthiers. My long-time flamenco guitar teacher and good friend Paco de Malaga has taught me much in terms of technique and the history of the genre, but his efforts have been complemented by all that I have learned on the Foro. Long may it live!
Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."
--Rudyard Kipling
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Date May 23 2020 16:24:33
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ernandez R
Posts: 737
Joined: Mar. 25 2019
From: Alaska USA
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RE: Solo flamenco guitar - a new tre... (in reply to Andy Culpepper)
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I see these
quote:
ORIGINAL: Andy Culpepper
quote:
There used to be a fellow on here who once spelled a word differently three times in the same sentence. He got along OK, he was a pretty entertaining character...but very creative in the spelling department.
I'll never forget when Florian and ToddK were battling back and forth, and Florian's spelling was just all over the place... he kept calling him "todk" "tod k" etc. and the one that really cracked me up for some reason was "toodk" 
The Foro has been through turmoil over the years and I think Simon has done an incredible job of moderating it, not trying to sanitize or over control things too much, and only delivering bans when things get really out of control. Now forums like this are dinosaurs compared to Facebook, etc. but this one is still going strong and I love it. I still think it's the best way to share information and discuss things online.
I see these fixed forums as depositories if information other forms of social media cannot provide.
There are years, lifetimes really of playing and lutherie information that is erreplaceble. I've built eight guitars now with some succese based on the information gleaned from past build threads. I've been egged on to build better by members here and in the delcamp.
The F if B so just odd. I signed up about ten years ago or perhaps it was longer... anyway it was perverse how. Could look up people from my past, friends and enamys, without disregard to privacy. This was before Zuckerburg allowed one to make your information privet. After day three I deleted my page, and many times afterwords until I was successful. And never looked back. I hear it's a feaver swamp of disinformation and ding dongs the kind of which I can do without. I some who use it successfully and we have a business page that perhaps gives us some trade or at least allows the word to know we exest.
I started an Instagram page for my guitar building when the delcamp photo posting became problamitec for me and I like the non contentious non political nature of mostly just posting photos. It works for me and my world. My plan is to really market my guitars once I've built ten, I've still got a lot to learn in this a lifetime of learning luthiery.
HR
_____________________________
I prefer my flamenco guitar spicy,
doesn't have to be fast,
should have some meat on the bones,
can be raw or well done,
as long as it doesn't sound like it's turning green on an elevator floor.
www.instagram.com/threeriversguitars
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Date May 24 2020 2:32:08
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Richard Jernigan
Posts: 3430
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA
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RE: Solo flamenco guitar - a new tre... (in reply to Ricardo)
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Fisk has often puzzled me. I hadn't heard this performance of the D Minor Prelude, but it's a good example of a puzzling Fisk performance. It seems like some kind of stunt. Does he really think that's the way to play it?
I think I have a CD of Fisk playing the Paganini violin caprices. I say I think so, because the CD shelves are downstairs, and if I do have it, I haven't listened to it for at least ten, maybe 15 years.
I remember another puzzling performance. Fisk was one of the featured performers at the International Guitar Festival in Cuernavaca, Mexico in 2000. To start off his concert he murdered a Bach piece, I don't remember which one, followed by a couple of other performances I really didn't like.
At intermission I groused about it to Kevin Gallagher, another of the featured performers. We had a few friendly conversations before that, maybe a meal or a drink with a group of people. I really liked Gallagher's playing.
Like the pro he is Gallagher wouldn't respond to any criticism of another pro. He just said, "I admire him."
"Why?"
"He has so much fun out there."
After the intermission Fisk played a very lively, modern, not particularly refined or serious piece "Notre Dame Blues" by Rochberg. It was a hoot.
My settled impression of Fisk: WTF????
Classical guitarists and flamenco? Adam del Monte played a concert here recently. I lked his classical playing. He played a very modern soleá, "dedicated to his teacher Pepe Habichuela."
Mak Grgic played some virtuoso classical duets with del Monte, and they did some flamenco duets, which were actually flamenco, at the modern end of the genre.
I enjoyed the whole concert.
On the other hand, there was a recent master class here by David Russell just before the coronavirus lockdown. All three students from Adam Holzman's University of Texas guitar studio were astoundingly virtuosic. So was Russell in his concert the next night. No flamenco at all.
For an encore Russell played a transcription of one of Albeniz's Spanish genre piano pieces: Cadiz? Sevilla? Not sure which at the moment, but it took me straight to Andalucia. As we stood up for the ovation, I turned to Larisa and said, "We're leaving tomorrow for Spain." She nodded and smiled enthusiastically. It wasn't flamenco at all, and wasn't meant to be. But it was quintessentially Spanish, more than I ever heard him play it before.
Russell and his wife ended up marooned in California for a while, then made it home I think. I haven't left Austin since then.
RNJ
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Date May 24 2020 4:04:25
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ernandez R
Posts: 737
Joined: Mar. 25 2019
From: Alaska USA
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RE: Solo flamenco guitar - a new tre... (in reply to devilhand)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: devilhand
quote:
I'm not sure if Diablohands was being serious or sarcastic ( /s this helps) but I feel Sugovia drove a wedge between players of Spanish guitar for his own gain. Oy, Another flame suit subject for another time.
When I open this thread I want to start a serious discussion about what the title of this thread says. Is it really a fact or is it only Mr. Fisk's personal opinion?
As for the question I asked in this thread, I thought what Mr. Fisk said couldn't be true. If it were true, the foro would have already been flooded with a bunch of wannabe flamenco classical guitar players. But this doesn't seem to be the case. Maybe they're hiding and lurking there from underground.
Devilhand,
Lot of action on this thread you've started and your reply slipped by my pain meds soaked eye.
I watched the video and thought it was drivel without point or merit.
But, your next question's answer: aren't we all Flamenco wannabes? How many of us are Gitano? You?
I was raised by a cow milking then Ferrier father, as a child I cranked the bellows while my father hammered horse shoes into shape. We had real hungry times with almost zerro food in the house. Does this make me Gitano? Later we lived in a single mom ghetto called the Slatter slums. Does this make me Gitano? I grew up with horses and I learned to ride as a child. Does that make me Gitano?
Anyway, I believe we all have an essence of Flamenco inside us if we search it out and although I will never play flamenco puro I can beat out rhythm enough to make women want to dance and men sing.
I think the young you seek playing flamenco will not be found on any web forum or social media. You will find them on an untrodden beach or the end of a dusty road, a housing project most wouldn't dare, or perhaps panhandling in a small third world town.
I see Flamenco and Gitano less of a concrete definition and more of an emotional state. It can't really come from books or a utube site. The other nite I was banging along on my guitar and just got into this groove loosely based on a bularios and three finger rasgao. I was transported to a different mental state, ya I know could have been the Gabbapentin and hydrocodone. The next day the boss says to me how she had to stop what she was doing to listen to me because it sounded really good: that's Flamenco or rather a tiny taste of it, to take the cords and rhythm and structure and turn it into magic; like when Captain Jack Sparrow says what a ship is made of, all its sum parts, but what a ship is is freedom! That's it, that's what flamenco is to me, freedom.
Guess I can't really tell you were the young flamenco are...
HR
ps. glad you started a thread that led into so many discussions
_____________________________
I prefer my flamenco guitar spicy,
doesn't have to be fast,
should have some meat on the bones,
can be raw or well done,
as long as it doesn't sound like it's turning green on an elevator floor.
www.instagram.com/threeriversguitars
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Date May 24 2020 4:20:54
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