Conde Hermanos model question

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Pablo_Flamenco

Posts: 2
Joined: May 12 2016

Conde Hermanos model question

Hi guys, :)

This is the first time that i write on this forum but i want to say that it's really nice, and all the informations that i found on it are priceless.

I'm here to ask you a little help about a Conde Hermanos and i'm wondering if someone can tell me some extra information about it.

It's a Conde from 1993 and it has a media luna headstock. Unfortunatelly the label inside says Conde Hermanos, Constructores year 1993, Felipe V N° 2.
I heard that "constructores" means a cheaper model. What i don't understand is why it has a media luna headstock. Could it be possibile? can be a fake guitar? Even if they are cheaper, are they still good?

Thank you very much guys :)
I'll try to attach some photos

Attachment (2)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 19 2020 20:39:43

JasonM

Posts: 2054
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: Conde Hermanos model question (in reply to Pablo_Flamenco)

Welcome to the foro! Is this a guitar you are thinking of buying or do you own it? Chances are it’s probably made by the Sanchis factory but it could still be a good guitar. Might be good to shine a light in the soundhole to see what the bracing pattern looks like.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 20 2020 14:25:32

Echi

Posts: 1132
Joined: Jan. 11 2013

RE: Conde Hermanos model question (in reply to Pablo_Flamenco)

Hi and welcome.
That is clearly a studio model Conde.
The “media Luna” shape is not original but carved out from the studio model headstock by someone. In fact the distance between slots and the top of the shape is smaller than it should be.
Cheers

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 20 2020 15:10:25

Pablo_Flamenco

Posts: 2
Joined: May 12 2016

RE: Conde Hermanos model question (in reply to Pablo_Flamenco)

Hi folks!

Thank you very much for your help!

Yes, that's a guitar i was planning to buy. I can provide another pic of the soundhole.

Cheers

Attachment (1)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 20 2020 15:32:19

tele

Posts: 1464
Joined: Aug. 17 2012

RE: Conde Hermanos model question (in reply to Pablo_Flamenco)

I'm not entirely sure conde made student models with media luna headstock at all, they seemed to use the earlier sobrinos of santos hernandez style headstocks for student models. However, there is a huge amount of fake condes, and also one should study what kind of soundhole labels did the student models use before considering purchasing a guitar like this. One can use the felipe v shop and year as a guide, perhaps confirming authenticity with conde hermanos or pro shop is best choice, by sending them pics. I have seen many fake condes so it's good to make sure.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 20 2020 15:51:57

Ricardo

Posts: 14801
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Conde Hermanos model question (in reply to Pablo_Flamenco)

Never seen that label before. Looks like someone altered a $500 factory guitar to pass off as a conde. If it sounds good I guess it’s worth like 5-$600 max. I have the physical catalogue and the closest guitar by it’s look to this is EF 4 or EF 5 and someone re shaped the head stock. But I can’t see the label. If it’s a legit EF-5, probably made by Sanchis in Valencia, they used to go for $1200 or so.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 20 2020 17:13:01

Richard Jernigan

Posts: 3430
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA

RE: Conde Hermanos model question (in reply to tele)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tele
However, there is a huge amount of fake condes

What caught my eye in the photos was the thick lumpy lacquer around the soundhole. Didn't look like a top of the line Conde to me.

Richard Brune said, "Of the 400 or so guitars Santos Hernandez made in his lifetime, probably no more than a thousand survive."

No doubt there are far more fake Condes. The shop at Gravina 7 used to sell some themselves, while some of the brothers were still alive. I met more than one tourist proudly displaying a miserable piece of junk for which he had paid the top of the line price.

Question: if you bought it at the shop at Gravina 7 under the supervision of the brothers. was it a "fake authentic Conde" or an "authentic fake Conde?"

RNJ

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 20 2020 17:35:36

Echi

Posts: 1132
Joined: Jan. 11 2013

RE: Conde Hermanos model question (in reply to Pablo_Flamenco)

Well, as I said, that is just a studio Conde with artefact headstock.
Bridge, plantilla and rosette are typical of a studio Conde 2nd class, usually with round shaped headstock.
At the time there used to ba also a better studio model, with the Esteso Headstock and a slightly different rosette.
The studio series guitars (different from the so called Conde "de segunda" or second class) used to be made in Madrid in a different shop (originally in calle Pozuelo and branded with a green labe, later on in Atochal), until Juliana Conde in the eighties outsourced the line to Vicente Sanchis.

To recap you used to have the media luna series (either first or second class, with unsigned label) a 3rd class Gravina 7 model (the same as the 2nd class but with Esteso headstock) and then a couple of studio models made in a different shop (either with Esteso shape headstock or easy rounded headstock).
In this case we are speaking of the very entry model.

quote:

Question: if you bought it at the shop at Gravina 7 under the supervision of the brothers. was it a "fake authentic Conde" or an "authentic fake Conde?"

The brothers used to sell quality guitars made by top luthiers working under their specification and supervision. Same thing did many other acclaimed Spanish makers.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 20 2020 19:24:26

RobJe

Posts: 731
Joined: Dec. 16 2006
From: UK

RE: Conde Hermanos model question (in reply to Pablo_Flamenco)

It is Model EF4 and the headstock has been re-carved to make it look like one of the top models. In certain circumstances (eg re-carver = seller) this might be a criminal offence.
The model of this period regarded as 2a is the A28, the EF4 is a lower model.

Here is another one (this one is not re-carved).

Rob

Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 20 2020 19:39:53

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 20 2020 19:54:24

Echi

Posts: 1132
Joined: Jan. 11 2013

RE: Conde Hermanos model question (in reply to Pablo_Flamenco)

Well, to recarve a headstock in itself is not a criminal offense if the guitar is sold for what it is (a studio model) and with the original label; more likely the owner wanted a media Luna headstock, he had the headstock carved and eventually ended up selling the guitar.
On eBay I saw a couple of fake Conde in the past months: they were just other maker’s guitars with a fake label/stamp and recarved headstock. These are certainly configuring a criminal offense.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 20 2020 23:35:34