RE: Rosalía “El Mal Querer”

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Ricardo

Posts: 14797
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Rosalía “El Mal Querer” (in reply to mrstwinkle)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mrstwinkle

This 'Juro que' vid by her just popped up on a group I follow. Not jondo or puro, but enjoy for what it is.

https://youtu.be/mtym36PG6R8

Nice use of autoTune. At least she hired a real guitarist. My prediction is that when she gets to her 50s she will turn totally retro, pretending to champion the puro cante of old after it’s all but dead and the only Flamenco artist on the circuit is her and the aging Antonio Rey.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 24 2020 3:40:44

ernandez R

Posts: 737
Joined: Mar. 25 2019
From: Alaska USA

RE: Rosalía “El Mal Querer” (in reply to Ricardo)

Interesting thread. Some really well thought out ideas: history, philosophy, and opinions. Some schwag though that doesn't add much to the conversation.

I dig Rosalia. I'm over fifty but I still bump into pop stars that flip my switch. Halsy is one. Bibi Borilli is another. Noted these three are female ;)

Music is music. It doesn't need an explanation. It ether moves you or it doesn't.

It's funny really, non of us are Gitano, literally or figuratively we might argue about it but the culture doesn't care. We can embrace it as it grows and find pathways to feed and water it so the future continues to hear this music or we can kill it.

Rosalia has tens of thousands of cool kids clapping compas, sure it's not your daddies flamenco but it never was. I hate how Jazzminco turned into elevator music but many of the so called puro crowd sure embraced it; and now the same diss Rosalia? I'm not angry, I'm laughing because this last Video of hers Juro Que has almost four million views.

Now that I think about it it's the watered down elevator music I don't care for: flamenco, jazz, Classical, and it doesn't matter because it's a personal choice. I like my flamenco guitar with a touch of one two phuc you, my cantor screaming and sweating blood for his love or family or country, and dancers should be on fire: three parts sex and two parts whirling dervish on crack. Each should perform like no one is watching and not a care for the world because the world doesn't really care about culture.

Remember this idea lives or dies in our hearts as we clap along, alone or with friends, a stadium full of individuals writhing as one, the tourist searching, or like myself beating strings until my fingernails are paper thin and I can taste the copper from the worn windings playing and playing and playing. Olé!

HR

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 24 2020 8:01:47

JasonM

Posts: 2051
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: Rosalía “El Mal Querer” (in reply to ernandez R)

Holy ****! This video is #8 on Trending!

Not since Camarón posted Soy Gitano in ‘89 has flamenco ever been trending on YouTube

Oh you play Flamingo? Isn’t ROSALÍA amazing!?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 24 2020 15:45:52

Mark2

Posts: 1868
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco

RE: Rosalía “El Mal Querer” (in reply to Ricardo)

I like a lot about the tango. I saw a vid of her using auto tune live, and I really didn't care for it, but I think it is interesting that she brought that sound to her music. I do like it in this tune.

Popular music has always promoted artists that have appeal beyond the actual music, and to me she has tons of appeal. Some people are musicians, some are stars. It's mostly a different gig, unless the talent level is off the hook, in which case we have the greats.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo

quote:

ORIGINAL: mrstwinkle

This 'Juro que' vid by her just popped up on a group I follow. Not jondo or puro, but enjoy for what it is.

https://youtu.be/mtym36PG6R8

Nice use of autoTune. At least she hired a real guitarist. My prediction is that when she gets to her 50s she will turn totally retro, pretending to champion the puro cante of old after it’s all but dead and the only Flamenco artist on the circuit is her and the aging Antonio Rey.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 24 2020 20:20:18

ernandez R

Posts: 737
Joined: Mar. 25 2019
From: Alaska USA

RE: Rosalía “El Mal Querer” (in reply to JasonM)

Jason,

That's Flami-go! I won't even to pretend but I play for myself. And dog knows I would never try to make my own video of me playing. Now that I think about it there are a couple short sections on Instagram somewhere. 50 views at best; I'm a flamingo star!

I have a lot of respect for the pros who keep it real in these unreal times, who take the time to share, and hopefully passing the guitar to the next generation.

Now I'm going to look up Soy Gitano, it better be good ;)

HR

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 25 2020 9:24:27

JasonM

Posts: 2051
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: Rosalía “El Mal Querer” (in reply to ernandez R)

My dog needs to learn pawmas

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 26 2020 0:10:37

ernandez R

Posts: 737
Joined: Mar. 25 2019
From: Alaska USA

RE: Rosalía “El Mal Querer” (in reply to JasonM)

Jason,
That's funny because there is a short Instagram clip of me introducing about 15 mostly rhythmically challenged to palmas. Less dog and more like herding cats ;)

There is a shop in my small Alaskan village were I sell my guitars and the owner had an open house. I did a short talk on the history of flamenco, played some best I could, then introduced the group to the twelve beat Bulerias rhythm, then away we went. I'm not sure any of us had enough wine to do it justice but it was fun sharing something I am passionate about with my community. Having them actively participate was amazing.

HR

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 26 2020 7:59:53

devilhand

Posts: 1598
Joined: Oct. 15 2019

RE: Rosalía “El Mal Querer” (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Culpepper

Never heard of her before but this is pretty awesome:

Haha! Before flamenco I used to play this kind of stuff on guitar as well. I got bored and wanted to play something different. If this were flamenco, I'll stick to funk music which sounds 1000 times cooler making chick's rump shake heavy as hell.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 26 2020 12:37:50

Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3023
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: Rosalía “El Mal Querer” (in reply to devilhand)

quote:

Before flamenco I used to play this kind of stuff on guitar as well.

You played two notes over and over again in seguiriyas compás before you knew flamenco? Cool!

I'm still a fan, but the auto-tune in that new one is a little too much :/

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 26 2020 14:07:05

devilhand

Posts: 1598
Joined: Oct. 15 2019

RE: Rosalía “El Mal Querer” (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

quote:

You played two notes over and over again in seguiriyas compás before you knew flamenco? Cool!

Not really. But you can get this kind of sound out of guitar using simple Hendrix chords in E major. You can use drop D tuning and play Hendrix chords as well.

As for this chick, she has a real flamenco voice. Another video I like more. If the guitarist were a real tocaor, it would have sounded more cool. But this guy Joselito can play better.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 26 2020 14:26:57

devilhand

Posts: 1598
Joined: Oct. 15 2019

RE: Rosalía “El Mal Querer” (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

At least she hired a real guitarist.

I think the guitarist is Joselito. The same guitarist as in the video above.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 26 2020 14:56:33

Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3023
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: Rosalía “El Mal Querer” (in reply to Ricardo)

As Mark said, she has star power and that's worth a lot. Flamenco puro is never going to hit the mainstream but she has about as much overlap with real flamenco as you can hope for.
I've heard other cantaoras aim for a pop audience with cheesy glockenspiels and crap in the background which I didn't care for, but Rosalia has some grit and edge to her sound which I like.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 26 2020 15:05:02

Piwin

Posts: 3559
Joined: Feb. 9 2016

RE: Rosalía “El Mal Querer” (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

quote:

cheesy

I have no idea what you mean.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 26 2020 15:54:57

Ricardo

Posts: 14797
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Rosalía “El Mal Querer” (in reply to devilhand)

quote:

As for this chick, she has a real flamenco voice.

Paging Morante, come in morante! Morante? MORANTE!!!

I love how she attempted cabales and the guitar idiot is still doing E and F

quote:

I think the guitarist is Joselito. The same guitarist as in the video above.

Well whoever told him to pretend like he is a beginner student when plays live with her, should be tortured alive on television.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 26 2020 17:45:02

RobF

Posts: 1611
Joined: Aug. 24 2017

RE: Rosalía “El Mal Querer” (in reply to Piwin)

quote:

quote:

cheesy

quote:

I have no idea what you mean.

I guess there’s no hope for me, I liked the second one.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 26 2020 19:58:25

RobF

Posts: 1611
Joined: Aug. 24 2017

RE: Rosalía “El Mal Querer” (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

Paging Morante, come in morante! Morante? MORANTE!!!

If Morante ever does come back, he’s going to have to change his name to Stella.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 26 2020 20:06:08

Piwin

Posts: 3559
Joined: Feb. 9 2016

RE: Rosalía “El Mal Querer” (in reply to RobF)

I kind of like the music too. But the video is so deep in cheese it's either French or Wisconsinite.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 26 2020 20:20:36

RobF

Posts: 1611
Joined: Aug. 24 2017

RE: Rosalía “El Mal Querer” (in reply to Piwin)

quote:

But the video is so deep in cheese it's either French or Wisconsinite.

I like the scenes of Granada, though.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 26 2020 20:28:25

devilhand

Posts: 1598
Joined: Oct. 15 2019

RE: Rosalía “El Mal Querer” (in reply to RobF)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RobF

quote:

Paging Morante, come in morante! Morante? MORANTE!!!

If Morante ever does come back, he’s going to have to change his name to Stella.

Who's Morante? Some kind of flamenco police?

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Say No to Fuera de Compás!!!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 27 2020 15:47:28

JasonM

Posts: 2051
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: Rosalía “El Mal Querer” (in reply to RobF)

I always thought that Jose Rey and Rosalia were the same singer’s voice until I saw that Jose was actually a dude

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 27 2020 15:47:42

Piwin

Posts: 3559
Joined: Feb. 9 2016

RE: Rosalía “El Mal Querer” (in reply to devilhand)

quote:

Who's Morante? Some kind of flamenco police?

Someone who is MUCH more involved in flamenco than 99% of us here. He has now left the foro and replaced it with other obligations (first and only foreigner that is part of the Cátedra de Flamenco de Cádiz). You don't have to agree with Morante on everything (I sure don't ^^), but he deserves your respect, and if he comes back you should very much pay attention to what he has to say.

2 months ago you were asking the most basic questions about the structure of palos. Morante has been at this for decades. It's great that you're getting into flamenco and of course everyone can have their own taste, but you should trust that Morante has a much more fine-tuned ability to judge what is a "real flamenco voice" than you do (or than I do), as does Ricardo. It's too easy to dismiss knowledge and experience as "the flamenco police". I get it. I don't particularly share both of their distaste for certain contemporary singers like, say, Rocio Marquez. But there's a lot to learn by not dismissing their opinions out of hand and by trying to figure out what it is they hear that to them distinguishes a "real flamenco voice" from the rest.

Compare the video you posted

with this one

I don't think I'm taking any risks here by assuming they would both agree the first is crap by their standards, and the second is good.

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"Anything you do can be fixed. What you cannot fix is the perfection of a blank page. What you cannot fix is that pristine, unsullied whiteness of a screen or a page with nothing on it—because there’s nothing there to fix."

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 27 2020 15:53:04

devilhand

Posts: 1598
Joined: Oct. 15 2019

RE: Rosalía “El Mal Querer” (in reply to Piwin)

Difficult to compare a voice of a young person with that of an elder person.

One thing is for sure. Both sound better than the cheesy 2 songs you posted above.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 27 2020 17:18:29

Piwin

Posts: 3559
Joined: Feb. 9 2016

RE: Rosalía “El Mal Querer” (in reply to devilhand)

OK,

here's Maria Vargas at the same age Rosalia is today (25-26), if that's easier to compare:

quote:

the cheesy 2 songs you posted above

Rosalia is string cheese, El Colorao is fresco, Maria Vargas is semi curado and El Moneo is curado

We should make a thing out of this. The cheese classification of cante

Savor the cheesy videos. They're great ammo. If ever Sergio says I play like a maricon, I can just say "oh yeah? Let's have a look at this video clip you made!"

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 27 2020 17:53:00

mark indigo

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007

RE: Rosalía “El Mal Querer” (in reply to Piwin)

quote:

But there's a lot to learn by not dismissing their opinions out of hand and by trying to figure out what it is they hear that to them distinguishes a "real flamenco voice" from the rest.

well said.

quote:

We should make a thing out of this. The cheese classification of cante

rancio!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 27 2020 20:28:28

JasonM

Posts: 2051
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: Rosalía “El Mal Querer” (in reply to Piwin)

quote:

with this one

I don't think I'm taking any risks here by assuming they would both agree the first is crap by their standards, and the second is good.

Sounds like Vargas’s intonation is a little off or something.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 27 2020 20:43:41

Piwin

Posts: 3559
Joined: Feb. 9 2016

RE: Rosalía “El Mal Querer” (in reply to JasonM)

Oh no! lol I'll have to listen to it more than just 10 seconds. I just went with the first video of hers that came up

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 27 2020 22:31:16

Auda

Posts: 246
Joined: Sep. 28 2019

RE: Rosalía “El Mal Querer” (in reply to Piwin)

I was able to make it a bit longer than you but had to stop soon after. Not a fan of female singers using baby voices. As you said it does matter the age if you can sing. It appears she is more of a pop singer though I would definitely prefer Rachael Price, Amy Winehouse or Zaz at the same age

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 28 2020 0:41:08

xirdneH_imiJ

Posts: 1889
Joined: Dec. 2 2006
From: Budapest, now in Southampton

RE: Rosalía “El Mal Querer” (in reply to Auda)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 28 2020 11:58:11

Ricardo

Posts: 14797
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Rosalía “El Mal Querer” (in reply to JasonM)

quote:

Sounds like Vargas’s intonation is a little off or something.

Rosalia should lend her that auto tune pedal she uses.

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CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 28 2020 13:01:48

devilhand

Posts: 1598
Joined: Oct. 15 2019

RE: Rosalía “El Mal Querer” (in reply to Piwin)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Piwin

OK,

here's Maria Vargas at the same age Rosalia is today (25-26), if that's easier to compare:

Maria Vargas has a deeper voice wheras Rosalia a thinner and higher. I like them both.

In general, the most angelic female voice ever. The one and only Eva Cassidy. Gone too soon. Rest in Peace.

My favourite is this cover of Fields of Gold by Sting. This is also sung live. Can't get enough of it.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 28 2020 15:50:02