Cardboard back and sides

Costs are rising and times are tough.
Please consider a donation to keep this
place going.

Welcome to one of the most active flamenco sites on the Internet. Guests can read most posts but if you want to participate click here to register.

This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvira, Philip John Lee, Craig Eros, Ben Woods, David Serva and Tom Blackshear who went ahead of us.

We receive 12,200 visitors a month from 200 countries and 1.7 million page impressions a year. To advertise on this site please contact us.

You are logged in as Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >>Discussions >>Lutherie >>

Page: [1]

Message

<< Newer Topic Older Topic >>

JasonM

Posts: 2055
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

Cardboard back and sides

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 1 2019 23:25:02

mango

Posts: 158
Joined: Apr. 2 2019

RE: Cardboard back and sides (in reply to JasonM)

Interesting and a bit funny.
Funny because the guy wants to proove that the material of the back and sides is not influencing the quality of the sound. But the fact that the guitar sounds good can also mean that cardboard just sounds good when used as back and sides.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 2 2019 16:37:28

BarkellWH

Posts: 3458
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: Cardboard back and sides (in reply to mango)

quote:

Interesting and a bit funny.
Funny because the guy wants to prove that the material of the back and sides is not influencing the quality of the sound. But the fact that the guitar sounds good can also mean that cardboard just sounds good when used as back and sides.

This guy is not proving anything that wasn't demonstrated by Antonio de Torres in 1862 when he built his famous guitar with papier mache' back and sides. Torres's guitar is displayed in the Museu de la Musica de Barcelona.

Bill

_____________________________

And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

--Rudyard Kipling

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 2 2019 18:49:08

Armando

Posts: 302
Joined: May 27 2005
From: Zürich, Switzerland

RE: Cardboard back and sides (in reply to JasonM)

This is something Don Antonio de Torres have proven a century ago already. Yes the soundboard is by far the most important part of the guitar. Nonethelsess the sides a back do also play a role and i believe to hear that in this recording. Something is not quite well. It has to do with the overtones.

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 2 2019 20:30:44

JasonM

Posts: 2055
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: Cardboard back and sides (in reply to JasonM)

Mango, I totally agree. Cardboard is wood after all and especially this case where it’s laminated. It Seems to sound pretty decent.

Bill and Armando, the guy acknowledges in the video that Torres did the experiment already and that it’s not his idea!

Something is off but I think it’s has to do with the mic picking up both the sound from guitar and the reflections from the room

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 3 2019 15:14:21

Echi

Posts: 1132
Joined: Jan. 11 2013

RE: Cardboard back and sides (in reply to JasonM)

Many sources suggest that back and sides have less influence than most of the people may think.
In fact this suggests that is better to invest in excellent tops than to spend a fortune in exotic woods for back and sides...
Given this, factors like mass and dampening of the wood are the major factors, whatever the species used.
Paul Fisher worked quite a lot in comparing guitars made with alternative woods and recently the project Leonardo added even beef to the test.

Coming back to Torres, I met a luthier (Francesco de Gregorio) who basically is experienced in copies of the Torres papier maché guitar, which he replicates with different woods. He thinks some woods give better results than other.
Again, just recently David La Plante put to sale his Torres cardboard guitar and shared his opinion about the cardboard: by his words it's easy quite to get that cardboard is not an ideal material (as obvious) both for workability and tone and Cypress would add a little more brilliance and depth to the note.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 3 2019 17:14:50

JasonM

Posts: 2055
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: Cardboard back and sides (in reply to Echi)

quote:

cardboard is not an ideal material (as obvious) both for workability and tone and Cypress would add a little more brilliance and depth to the note.

Cypress is one step up from cardboard

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 3 2019 18:39:46

constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1675
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: Cardboard back and sides (in reply to JasonM)

You guys think that guitar actually sounds good? The guitarist is good, but to me the guitar sounds like it has a couple of loose fan braces.

_____________________________

Ethan Deutsch
www.edluthier.com
www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars
www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 4 2019 0:50:12

mango

Posts: 158
Joined: Apr. 2 2019

RE: Cardboard back and sides (in reply to JasonM)

haha, good point Ethan! Well, at least most people will probably agree that it sounds better than expected from cardboard...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 4 2019 8:07:37

Echi

Posts: 1132
Joined: Jan. 11 2013

RE: Cardboard back and sides (in reply to JasonM)

I think the the problem here is the poor quality of the recording, (the sound is captured just on air after the amplification) while the guitar herself should sound right.
On the tube you can find better recordings of cardboard guitars (usually Torres style) and I doubt to be able to spot it in a blind test.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 4 2019 10:44:48