Welcome to one of the most active flamenco sites on the Internet. Guests can read most posts but if you want to participate click here to register.
This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvira, Philip John Lee, Craig Eros, Ben Woods, David Serva and Tom Blackshear who went ahead of us.
We receive 12,200 visitors a month from 200 countries and 1.7 million page impressions a year. To advertise on this site please contact us.
|
|
RE: Shape the sides to fit a domed back in five minutes.
|
You are logged in as Guest
|
Users viewing this topic: none
|
|
Login | |
|
RobF
Posts: 1611
Joined: Aug. 24 2017
|
RE: Shape the sides to fit a domed b... (in reply to mango)
|
|
|
Hi Mango, The exercise you’re doing with your program can get you a template if you increase the granularity, so you’re on the right path. You don’t have to build any taper into the template, just place it on the side blank at an angle so the desired end block depth tapers to the desired heel depth. Also, there’s nothing to prevent you from using a higher radius longitudinal arc than lateral. In other words, if you don’t like the look of a 15’ dome, then you could make the longitudinal arc 25’ then use 15’ for the lateral braces, for example. Or take it one step further and drop the upper bout brace height a touch. Just take care not to get crinkles in the back, but that’s the whole point of fitting it. I think the best path for a new maker to follow is to select a method, any method, and stick to it without too much deviation for their first build. The other methods will still be available to be explored in subsequent projects. That’s part of the fun of this. But trying to reinvent the instrument or to deviate all over the place, while not necessarily being a recipe for failure, is almost certainly not going to make the actual build process any more enjoyable and is unlikely to make a better guitar. Just my 2 cents, of course.
|
|
|
REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Oct. 20 2019 16:22:19
|
|
RobF
Posts: 1611
Joined: Aug. 24 2017
|
RE: Shape the sides to fit a domed b... (in reply to Echi)
|
|
|
I know a few classical makers who are making their backs with Nomex or wooden cored laminates, but I think when wood is used as a core layer for a back it’s generally cross grained. While laminated sides have been around for a long time, a number of newer makers are laminating in a relatively thick kerfed wooden core. Depending on the thickness and rigidity of the backs and sides, liners and even the back braces can be eliminated. I think the main rationale is to prevent the top from losing energy through the sides and into the back, with the goal of increasing loudness. I’ve never encountered a flamenco made this way, maybe there’s some out there. I’ve heard some pretty nice sounding classical guitars that were made using modern style laminations, however. Just an aside, I was given an old Gibson J55 with a broken headstock that I may or may not ever get around to repairing. It’s from the 1970’s and has a pressed laminate back with no back braces. The person who gave it to me said it was a good sounding guitar. I also picked up a similar vintage Aria classical at a garage sale for $20 that needs work to get the action down. But sonically, it kicks butt, loud and good tone to boot. I think it’s made with pretty well all laminates (maybe not the top, I’d have to check). As the old saying goes...plus ça change... *edit* To address your original speculation, while the laminate would likely have some form of impact on the tone, I agree with you that it might be so little as not be noticeable. There are so many other factors at work. Maybe if a solid back was replaced with a laminate (or vice versa) then one might hear an effect, but even a replacement with a similar style could also have some amount of discernible difference, however slight.
|
|
|
REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Oct. 25 2019 0:53:28
|
|
RobF
Posts: 1611
Joined: Aug. 24 2017
|
RE: Shape the sides to fit a domed b... (in reply to Stefan Leon Kelly)
|
|
|
This thread has had some focus on the doming method followed by Bogdanovich and Romanillos, where the lower bout doming on the workboard lies above the plane of the board. (*edit* I just realized I posted this in the wrong thread, but there is something side related at the end so I’ll leave it here.) I’ve just finished bracing a top with a lattice pattern, which holds the dome very well. I thought I’d post a couple of pictures of the top as it shows the rationale of why they’re doing it that way quite effectively. The upper bout on this top is flat while the lower is domed, I probably should have put the weight on the sound hole side of the brace to show that more clearly. But the point of this is to show the natural unstressed lie of the top after the dome is introduced. For reference, the workboard pictured is flat (also note that the board is not pushing up on the center of the lower bout, the top will hold this shape when hanging freely, the flat board is just there to help show the effect). Just an aside, this is a classical, I’ve never used lattice on flamencos. Also, as the thread is related to side bending, here’s a handy little jig to hold the bent sides while preparing to box. I always touch the sides up on the pipe before assembly, but this helps to minimize spring back prior to that. Oh, and in the spirit of the thread, these sides were preshaped.
Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px
Attachment (3)
|
|
|
REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Oct. 26 2019 15:52:08
|
|
aaron peacock
Posts: 141
Joined: Apr. 26 2020
From: Portugal
|
RE: Shape the sides to fit a domed b... (in reply to RobF)
|
|
|
Hello Rob, No, I can barely plane a true surface, let alone goof around like this. It's something I was admiring in a thread of similar backs on Pinterest. I have never seen the bracing of such a back. I inquire merely if the back bracing is pre-shaped for the doming and if complex middle-work or multi-peice backs alter the equation... Also, if go-bar placement is a general concern with domed backs, fancy or otherwise. I'm hacking away on my first solera at the moment, and will likely destroy much ugly low grade wood before I can even begin to ask appropriate questions here, let alone do work as shown above, lol... thank you nonetheless! ... by the way, at what point do such decorations negatively affect the tonality, sonority? I was under the impression that one could have a very active thin back for flamenco, and yet this indicates 'tank with steel strings & a truss rod' and some djembe-making thud wood, perhaps good for another style? respect to all the actual luthiers here. I'm a wanna-be going for my first build...
|
|
|
REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date May 9 2020 0:45:49
|
|
New Messages |
No New Messages |
Hot Topic w/ New Messages |
Hot Topic w/o New Messages |
Locked w/ New Messages |
Locked w/o New Messages |
|
Post New Thread
Reply to Message
Post New Poll
Submit Vote
Delete My Own Post
Delete My Own Thread
Rate Posts
|
|
|
Forum Software powered by ASP Playground Advanced Edition 2.0.5
Copyright © 2000 - 2003 ASPPlayground.NET |
0.09375 secs.
|