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docco

Posts: 24
Joined: Oct. 11 2019

Welcome to foro flamenco!

Hi everybody!
I just bought a Hohner guitar and decided to return to this great art after nearly 30 years of interruption for a living. I started to practice again picado, tremolo, rasgueado, arpeggio... and hope to take back the guitarist ability when I was young.
I would like to receive any help from anyone or class to speed up the process.

BTW, could anyone help me the sheet or TAB of this beautiful piece
https://youtu.be/rvr0w3J-Big
Thanks
docco

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 11 2019 23:49:48

kitarist

Posts: 1715
Joined: Dec. 4 2012

RE: Welcome to foro flamenco! (in reply to docco)

quote:

ORIGINAL: docco
BTW, could anyone help me the TAB of this beautiful piece
https://youtu.be/rvr0w3J-Big

https://www.homespun.com/shop/product/learn-to-play-flamenco-guitar/

tabs are included with the DVDs.

_____________________________

Konstantin

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 12 2019 0:01:05

docco

Posts: 24
Joined: Oct. 11 2019

RE: Welcome to foro flamenco! (in reply to kitarist)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kitarist

quote:

ORIGINAL: docco
BTW, could anyone help me the TAB of this beautiful piece
https://youtu.be/rvr0w3J-Big

https://www.homespun.com/shop/product/learn-to-play-flamenco-guitar/

tabs are included with the DVDs.

I think the link does not show anything related to the Solea piece I posted

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 12 2019 0:26:21

kitarist

Posts: 1715
Joined: Dec. 4 2012

RE: Welcome to foro flamenco! (in reply to docco)

The solea vid is part of the (second) DVD. I pointed you to the official product.

Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (1)

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Konstantin

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 12 2019 0:41:13

docco

Posts: 24
Joined: Oct. 11 2019

RE: Welcome to foro flamenco! (in reply to kitarist)

Solea has so many versions. And what you reccomand is exact the Solea of my post. Thank you

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 12 2019 2:18:33

kitarist

Posts: 1715
Joined: Dec. 4 2012

RE: Welcome to foro flamenco! (in reply to docco)

quote:

ORIGINAL: docco

Solea has so many versions. It is not sure the Solea in the DVD is the same with my post.

FFS

What makes you think that I pointed you to any random solea instead of to the particular solea that you asked about?? I responsibly researched the bit before answering you.

and yes obviously the DVDs have other content IN ADDITION TO THAT PARTICULAR VIDEO EXCERPT since they are 3h30min total length.

_____________________________

Konstantin

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 12 2019 3:46:35

Piwin

Posts: 3559
Joined: Feb. 9 2016

RE: Welcome to foro flamenco! (in reply to kitarist)

@kitarist no good deed goes unpunished

@docco tab it yourself? I mean that seriously. That sequence is about as easy as it's going to get, plus you have clear audio and stable close-up video of both hands (and you can slow any youtube video down if need be (in the settings on the bottom right corner of the video when you hover the cursor over it)). The time you spend working it out will probably be more useful than you think.

Welcome to the foro!

edit: @kitarist notice how it's advertised as "early intermediate". Man I just love how the marketing gods cajole us learners into a sense of confidence

I bought a language learning book not too long ago that had that "intermediate" label on it and i couldn't help but laugh. I guess it sells better than the more accurate label: "at this level, you just might be able to hold a conversation with a 6-year-old, just barely" (which would accurately describe my current level)

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"Anything you do can be fixed. What you cannot fix is the perfection of a blank page. What you cannot fix is that pristine, unsullied whiteness of a screen or a page with nothing on it—because there’s nothing there to fix."

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 12 2019 5:09:25

docco

Posts: 24
Joined: Oct. 11 2019

RE: Welcome to foro flamenco! (in reply to Piwin)

Solea has so many versions. And what you recommended is exact the Solea of my post. Sorry and thank you Kitarist

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 12 2019 6:18:55

flyeogh

Posts: 729
Joined: Oct. 13 2004

RE: Welcome to foro flamenco! (in reply to docco)

Docco first a big welcome to the foro. Don't be put off by a little misunderstanding. Foros are like that and I can assure you Kitarist is a very helpful and knowledgeable guy.

As for Solea do learn your piece and let us know what you think of it (from a learning and playing point of view). Solea is for sure a great palo that even for beginners like me can generate great feeling - even more so I think at slower speeds

As for Piwin's suggestion I think I'll give that a try. I'm not great at it and have no formal musical knowledge, but as Piwin says the vid has great clarity. And as it happens I'm working on Solea at the moment.

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nigel (el raton de Watford - now Puerto de Santa Maria, Cadiz)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 12 2019 19:38:42

kitarist

Posts: 1715
Joined: Dec. 4 2012

RE: Welcome to foro flamenco! (in reply to docco)

quote:

ORIGINAL: docco

Solea has so many versions. And what you recommended is exact the Solea of my post. Sorry and thank you Kitarist

I just saw that scribd has a copy of the booklet with tabs. Google 'Aaron Gilmartin Learn to Play Flamenco Guitar scribd' (without the ' ') and it should be the first link. Not sure what the legality of scribd is, but they seem to manage existing without getting in trouble, so I guess they somehow are legal. Pointing out that this exists on scribd in no way constitutes an endorsement. Your best bet is to get the official product from the link I posted up-thread.

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Konstantin

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 12 2019 19:54:05

docco

Posts: 24
Joined: Oct. 11 2019

RE: Welcome to foro flamenco! (in reply to kitarist)

I amazoned 2 DVD of Aaron Gilmartin but without tab. They're wonderful to practice Flamenco but it will be easy if we have sheets or tabs

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 13 2019 0:25:01

docco

Posts: 24
Joined: Oct. 11 2019

RE: Welcome to foro flamenco! (in reply to Piwin)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Piwin
@docco tab it yourself? I mean that seriously. That sequence is about as easy as it's going to get, plus you have clear audio and stable close-up video of both hands (and you can slow any youtube video down if need be (in the settings on the bottom right corner of the video when you hover the cursor over it)). The time you spend working it out will probably be more useful than you think.

Welcome to the foro!

Thank for your advice, Piwin. Anyway I try to part it out and practice on any part i can see. BTW can you give advice of tremolo pamiami - pamiami . Can it be used in Flamenco?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 13 2019 4:35:52

Piwin

Posts: 3559
Joined: Feb. 9 2016

RE: Welcome to foro flamenco! (in reply to docco)

I don't think there's any tremolo that can't be used in flamenco. The most common though is piami, common enough that it's often referred to as "flamenco tremolo". In principle there's nothing against using pamiami if it makes sense in the musical context.
The way I was taught tremolo was:
- use thumb reststrokes wherever humanly possible

- practice iami (or whichever pattern you're using) as if they were a "lead" to the next p. So, conceptually it's more "iamip" then "piami". You hear this a lot when the tempo is slow, the iami part will often be played as a flam / gracenotes before the p, instead of as an evenly spaced quintuplet. That's not a rule or anything though, just a general trend.

_____________________________

"Anything you do can be fixed. What you cannot fix is the perfection of a blank page. What you cannot fix is that pristine, unsullied whiteness of a screen or a page with nothing on it—because there’s nothing there to fix."

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 13 2019 17:37:22

docco

Posts: 24
Joined: Oct. 11 2019

RE: Welcome to foro flamenco! (in reply to Piwin)

Thank you Piwin, I recognize that I meet Flamenco masters here in foro. What is the highlight of Flamenco that classical music doesn't have? Can you advice the best way to enter the world of guitar Flamenco for a newbie who only study online

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 13 2019 19:38:45

Piwin

Posts: 3559
Joined: Feb. 9 2016

RE: Welcome to foro flamenco! (in reply to docco)

There are certainly maestros on here, but I'm not one of them! I'm "early intermediate".

quote:

What is the highlight of Flamenco that classical music doesn't have?

I'm not sure I understand the question. Could you rephrase it maybe? Are we still talking tremolo or is it a more general question like "what is the difference between flamenco and classical guitar"?

As for learning online, I'd say your best bet is to find a teacher who gives lessons on Skype. There were a few recommendations in this thread: http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=319764&appid=&p=&mpage=1&key=online%2Cteacher&tmode=&smode=&s=#319820

_____________________________

"Anything you do can be fixed. What you cannot fix is the perfection of a blank page. What you cannot fix is that pristine, unsullied whiteness of a screen or a page with nothing on it—because there’s nothing there to fix."

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 13 2019 20:33:32

flyeogh

Posts: 729
Joined: Oct. 13 2004

RE: Welcome to foro flamenco! (in reply to Piwin)

quote:

There are certainly maestros on here, but I'm not one of them! I'm "early intermediate".

but with a nice autumnal second flush

Docco where abouts do you live? I assume fairly isolated in flamenco terms.

_____________________________

nigel (el raton de Watford - now Puerto de Santa Maria, Cadiz)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 14 2019 6:21:43

Piwin

Posts: 3559
Joined: Feb. 9 2016

RE: Welcome to foro flamenco! (in reply to flyeogh)

quote:

a nice autumnal second flush

Man oh man...so many constipation jokes to make, so little time.

_____________________________

"Anything you do can be fixed. What you cannot fix is the perfection of a blank page. What you cannot fix is that pristine, unsullied whiteness of a screen or a page with nothing on it—because there’s nothing there to fix."

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 14 2019 10:08:20

docco

Posts: 24
Joined: Oct. 11 2019

RE: Welcome to foro flamenco! (in reply to Piwin)

quote:

Aficionado

Thank Piwin for the thread link. For "what is the difference between flamenco and classical guitar" we still talk about tremolo. I learned here that flamenco always p with rest stroke. This makes the base always stronger and more prominent than the tremolo. In classical, sometime tremolo is the main and the bass is backup, eg in Recuerdos de la Alhambra by Francisco Tarrega.
One term I do not know is "clara", is it the same with clave?
edit: I start with Solea, the sound like (beat 10-12)

-----0------------------
--------------0---------
-----------1---------
--------2----------------
-------------
-0------------------
is frequently used in Solea. What it is?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 14 2019 18:01:13

Piwin

Posts: 3559
Joined: Feb. 9 2016

RE: Welcome to foro flamenco! (in reply to docco)

quote:

we still talk about tremolo

Either the bass line with the thumb or the tremolo can be accentuated, or a mix of the two. You stick with thumb rest strokes in both cases.

quote:

One term I do not know is "clara", is it the same with clave?

Doesn't ring a bell. Claro/clara literally means "clear" but beyond that I don't think it has any specific meaning in flamenco. (a "clara" is also a beer with lemonade but I digress).

quote:

is frequently used in Solea. What it is?

Just a common variation of playing the E chord between 10 and 12. You'll often find a resolution from F to E on 10. There are a variety of ways to demarcate that E, from just playing the full chord on 10 and letting it ring, to the pattern you posted (often with added flourishes to it).

_____________________________

"Anything you do can be fixed. What you cannot fix is the perfection of a blank page. What you cannot fix is that pristine, unsullied whiteness of a screen or a page with nothing on it—because there’s nothing there to fix."

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 14 2019 20:57:03

rombsix

Posts: 7805
Joined: Jan. 11 2006
From: Beirut, Lebanon

RE: Welcome to foro flamenco! (in reply to kitarist)

quote:

Pointing out that this exists on scribd in no way constitutes an endorsement. Your best bet is to get the official product from the link I posted up-thread.

_____________________________

Ramzi

http://www.youtube.com/rombsix

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 14 2019 23:29:01

Ricardo

Posts: 14797
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Welcome to foro flamenco! (in reply to docco)

quote:

This makes the base always stronger and more prominent than the tremolo.

Actually not true at all. In fact resting the thumb gives you some opposing force with which the fingers can better grip and pluck the strings, so you end up with also the repeating finger notes “louder” than if done free stroke thumb floating in the air above the strings. In the end, just because you make a rest stroke doesn’t mean it has to be LOUD necessarily. What the flamencos are after is the stability of the hand and relaxation thereafter of the forearm. Think of the resting thumb stroke more as an anchor rather than simply a stronger sound.

“Claras” are the loud bright hand clapping palmas, “sordas” are the sideways muted palmas. Before the modern practice of using polite looped palmas low in the mix, it was important for live Palmeros to be musical by switching between the two clapping styles depending on the dynamics of the music.

quote:

What is the highlight of Flamenco that classical music doesn't have?

Rasgueados and golpe used to express compas patterns.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 15 2019 7:27:22

docco

Posts: 24
Joined: Oct. 11 2019

RE: Welcome to foro flamenco! (in reply to rombsix)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rombsix

quote:

Pointing out that this exists on scribd in no way constitutes an endorsement. Your best bet is to get the official product from the link I posted up-thread.

Do not worry, I have got the booklet and these 2 DVD
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1wJywcZ0kLAfb7h8umbVV2LPioRBxutGs
Many thanks to the guide of Ricardo and Piwin.
Edit: I wonder that in Solea, in 12 beats of 2 bars, what beat rasgueado frequently begins and ends? Is it done frequently beginning in 1st bars, not in 2nd bars?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 15 2019 19:25:24

Ricardo

Posts: 14797
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Welcome to foro flamenco! (in reply to docco)

quote:

ORIGINAL: docco

quote:

ORIGINAL: rombsix

quote:

Pointing out that this exists on scribd in no way constitutes an endorsement. Your best bet is to get the official product from the link I posted up-thread.

Do not worry, I have got the booklet and these 2 DVD
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1wJywcZ0kLAfb7h8umbVV2LPioRBxutGs
Many thanks to the guide of Ricardo and Piwin.
Edit: I wonder that in Solea, in 12 beats of 2 bars, what beat rasgueado frequently begins and ends? Is it done frequently beginning in 1st bars, not in 2nd bars?

You might mean 4 bars of 3 beats each, which is 12 total. A typical pattern for medium fast solea tempos is start on 1 playing rasgueado through count 1 and 2, accenting or stopping on 3. Then rasgueado on count 7 stop on 8, rasgueado on count 9 stop on 10. Usually the remate are arpegios as shown above covers counts 10 -12.

Keep in mind that the typical pattern I described is only one of dozens of different patterns that can express the compas authentically.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 16 2019 22:37:59

docco

Posts: 24
Joined: Oct. 11 2019

RE: Welcome to foro flamenco! (in reply to Ricardo)

Thank Ricardo for your guide. One more question is that if I want to feel somewhat the soul of Solea, what I should focus: cante, baile, or guitar?

For these bars in Solea (after tremolo section), https://drive.google.com/open?id=1WIr0HofwFssPrHMlHwvj2Pf98jy00PmY , it seems that Aron Gilmartin uses 3 strokes of i (up-down-up) (with down stroke makes no sound) to timing? This timing is frequently used in Solea/Flamenco or just rarely?

Edit: when I look materials to learn flamenco guitar, I feel that it is not systematic like clasical guitar or dancing. Or I haven't found it yet? For example, in dancesport, we have roughly 3 levels: bronze, silver and gold. In the bronze level, we can study the basic technique and enough to dance. Silver and gold levels are only the developing. Most courses frequently use a simple lesson but beautiful enough for people play and enjoy, and through this lesson, teachers break it down to show the basic technique.
Or in clasical guitar, I can practice from easy lesson to harder lesson to study technique from basic to higher level, such as following F. Carulli method. I played songs of Taraga before playing of Sor.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 19 2019 5:43:21

Ricardo

Posts: 14797
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Welcome to foro flamenco! (in reply to docco)

So at first focus on guitar (bronze)... the rhythm and technique for making specific rhythm patterns and falsetas. Once you get some stuff sounding well you can checkout dance classes. These can be repetitive and boring rhythmic patterns and statements, however they for a sort of base like drum rudiments. Not unlike the poor whiplash drummers, a serious hazing and condescending attitude might rain down on the good student... keep in mind this is to separate men from boys, it’s not meant to trigger a call to the therapist (silver).

The growing dance accompanist will be forced to accompany some cante with a deliberate forced structure. This blue print of how to play for singers will eventually lead to a more serious investigation of the variety of singing styles and expression, where the student can finally arrive at understanding a bit of what the entire meaning of the art form is all about (gold).

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 19 2019 8:22:25