RE: I am moving to Italy

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flyeogh

Posts: 729
Joined: Oct. 13 2004

RE: I am moving to Italy (in reply to Piwin)

quote:

and that doesn't have anything to do with being part of the EU, as far as I can tell.

Piwin the most obvious connection for me is that the best qualified Spaniards can easily migrate north (a qualified Spaniard can do a mundane job in the UK and earn more money than pursuing their career in Spain). This leaves a Spanish economy with limited human resources. That creates a downward spiral on investment (Catalunya being to some degree the exception). And as we see poor economies are easily exploited by big companies. [At least the threat of brexit has led to some corporate distribution over multiple countries]. And in Spain you can see very clearly how the EU turned a blind eye to Spanish corruption in the early years.

But for sure piwin there are other problems with Spain. But I'd need a beer in the shade for us to have a good chat on that

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nigel (el raton de Watford - now Puerto de Santa Maria, Cadiz)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 7 2019 18:06:19

Piwin

Posts: 3559
Joined: Feb. 9 2016

RE: I am moving to Italy (in reply to flyeogh)

quote:

But I'd need a beer in the shade for us to have a good chat on that

Concur.

I hope she ends up finding a job that allows her to build a proper life. Definitely not easy these days in Spain...

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"Anything you do can be fixed. What you cannot fix is the perfection of a blank page. What you cannot fix is that pristine, unsullied whiteness of a screen or a page with nothing on it—because there’s nothing there to fix."

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 8 2019 1:11:13

flyeogh

Posts: 729
Joined: Oct. 13 2004

RE: I am moving to Italy (in reply to Piwin)

quote:

I hope she ends up finding a job that allows her to build a proper life.

Thanks for the thought. At least she is fluent in English. But being 35 and not wanting a relationship (a shared economy) I feel she'll be moving back in at some point.

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nigel (el raton de Watford - now Puerto de Santa Maria, Cadiz)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 8 2019 9:19:02

sartorius

Posts: 206
Joined: Mar. 7 2017

RE: I am moving to Italy (in reply to Escribano)

Spain is good for pensioners with money, not to find a job and strive all life.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 11 2019 16:48:43

tele

Posts: 1464
Joined: Aug. 17 2012

RE: I am moving to Italy (in reply to Escribano)

That looks like a great place!
I wonder how the cost of rent and food compares to southern Spain?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 12 2019 0:17:45

Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: I am moving to Italy (in reply to sartorius)

Except that I work in tech. so can live anywhere. You missed that one

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Foro Flamenco founder and Admin

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 12 2019 10:31:35

Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: I am moving to Italy (in reply to tele)

It’s generally more expensive but property is reasonable, logs and food not too bad

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Foro Flamenco founder and Admin

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 12 2019 10:33:03

Auda

Posts: 246
Joined: Sep. 28 2019

RE: I am moving to Italy (in reply to Escribano)

quote:

Oh please, the EU has allowed me to live and prosper in France, The Netherlands, Spain and now Italy without hinderance. Without it, Britain will be infinitely weaker having been lied to by the "upper caste's media" during the referendum and even to this day.

It will become an unregulated tax haven for the benefit of the very wealthy. I get enough of this kind of uninformed BS at home.

That is why I am leaving.

Heartily agree mate. Might be moving to Italy too though we are not sure where just yet. It is nice having an Irish passport. Your property looks stunning.

Cheers

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 12 2019 12:36:33

flyeogh

Posts: 729
Joined: Oct. 13 2004

RE: I am moving to Italy (in reply to flyeogh)

The EU and Brexit is a very interesting topic. What makes it interesting is it can be considered from so many angles.

For example Simon offers that he can move around and live/work in Europe where he likes. Even that is not clear cut of course. I'm a Brit living in Spain and to be resident here I needed to prove I had an economy and that I had health cover. So "free movement" isn't quite what it appears. And of course many people lived and worked in foreign countries before the common market came into existence. And many Brits will continue to do so after Brexit (if it happens).

If you really cannot demonstrate that you will not be a drain on local resources is it right that anyone can dump themselves on someone else's doorstep? I don't offer that question to support Brexit but I do wish those on both sides would think carefully about others prior to stating what they think is an obvious conclusion.

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nigel (el raton de Watford - now Puerto de Santa Maria, Cadiz)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 12 2019 14:45:51

Auda

Posts: 246
Joined: Sep. 28 2019

RE: I am moving to Italy (in reply to flyeogh)

When did you move to Spain? Was it after the referendum? I use to have a property in France and was never asked such questions.

I was under the impression funds have been intermingled in the EU that cover health for the most part. I seem to remember that was Boris' big Brexit selling point. I am not a Brit but use to live in the UK for an extended period and paid a large amount of money into the NI scheme that I largely never availed myself. Though I do not currently reside in the EU I would hope, should I move back, I would still be able to utilise the system to which I have paid so much into.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 12 2019 16:15:01

Piwin

Posts: 3559
Joined: Feb. 9 2016

RE: I am moving to Italy (in reply to flyeogh)

IIRC, I had to show up with ID, proof of residency and my application to the autonomo system (which entails subscribing to social security). I don't remember having had to show savings, but I wouldn't be surprised that I did, since it's a pretty standard requirement. Perhaps that's not as free as some would like, but anyone who's ever had to go through the process of obtaining a long-term working visa will enjoy the difference. I don't know whether Simon is an expatriate in the technical sense (or detached? whatever they call it these days) or whether he's his own boss. In the latter case, the EU free circulation makes things a lot easier. In my own case, I have my own client base and, like Simon, I can work from anywhere as long as I have a computer and an Internet connection. A lot of countries require sponsorships for entry, which is usually done by the future employer. That makes things difficult for those of us who don't have an employer. In France there are companies that specialize in being a front for the self-employed (société de portage). They provide you an official "employee" status while you're really working as a freelance. In exchange they take a good chunk of your profits (was around 15% last time I looked).

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"Anything you do can be fixed. What you cannot fix is the perfection of a blank page. What you cannot fix is that pristine, unsullied whiteness of a screen or a page with nothing on it—because there’s nothing there to fix."

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 12 2019 17:41:39

flyeogh

Posts: 729
Joined: Oct. 13 2004

RE: I am moving to Italy (in reply to Auda)

quote:

When did you move to Spain? Was it after the referendum? I use to have a property in France and was never asked such questions.

Auda it has nothing to do with property. It is spanish residency that has for more years than I can remember required proof of health cover and economy. The arrangement for tourists is totally different, even those who own property.

quote:

I am not a Brit but use to live in the UK for an extended period and paid a large amount of money into the NI scheme that I largely never availed myself.

NI is not a savings scheme. It is an insurance. So you had cover while you were in the UK. The fact you were lucky enough not to need to use the NHS has nothing to do with anything. Yes for sure the more you earnt the more you paid (up to a limit), but that is how the UK looks after the less fortunate.

quote:

Though I do not currently reside in the EU I would hope, should I move back, I would still be able to utilise the system to which I have paid so much into.

My experience with Spaniards living in the UK is that the NHS is very generous. Indeed my now wife was in the UK for 6 years with several health issues. She saw her GP, a number of specialists, and received a number of remedies over those years. Never once was she asked for evidence of anything beyond her name and address. But if you are of working age when you return to the UK I can't see on what basis you could expect free health cover - which doesn't mean you wouldn't get it

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nigel (el raton de Watford - now Puerto de Santa Maria, Cadiz)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 12 2019 19:22:10

flyeogh

Posts: 729
Joined: Oct. 13 2004

RE: I am moving to Italy (in reply to Piwin)

quote:

That makes things difficult for those of us who don't have an employer. In France there are companies that specialize in being a front for the self-employed (société de portage). They provide you an official "employee" status while you're really working as a freelance. In exchange they take a good chunk of your profits (was around 15% last time I looked).

Piwin same here in Spain. And saying all my work is over the internet, with no activity/transactions/assets in Spain, so therefore I'm not technically employed in Spain, will not work. There was a recent case where that was argued. The state won. And here in Spain they hate people working. So the high costs of self-employment need to be swallowed

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nigel (el raton de Watford - now Puerto de Santa Maria, Cadiz)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 12 2019 19:28:31

Auda

Posts: 246
Joined: Sep. 28 2019

RE: I am moving to Italy (in reply to flyeogh)

quote:

NI is not a savings scheme. It is an insurance. So you had cover while you were in the UK. The fact you were lucky enough not to need to use the NHS has nothing to do with anything. Yes for sure the more you earnt the more you paid (up to a limit), but that is how the UK looks after the less fortunate.

A point I was making in my last post was that money is intermingled in the EU of which the UK has been part of and into whose system I have paid so I do not feel as if I would not be dumping myself on someone's doorstep should I relocate to another EU country. I also think that sentiment was a factor in the "leave" vote though I am not sure the reality of the sentiment was truly established.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 12 2019 20:06:35

Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010

RE: I am moving to Italy (in reply to flyeogh)

If I recall that correctly, it´s been just this or last year that Spanish Islands like Ibiza came to restrict on Russian Mafia Infiltration. The guys from Russia would bring over their prey and buy off luxury real estate. In turn Visa and immigration procedures were nobrainer. Many even embraced by local officials. That cash / easy money laundry and ‘RE development’ was welcomed for many years, until lately.

Similar with Cyprus, though (again: If I remember that right) there doors ought to be still open.

Money after all makes this world go round.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 13 2019 15:31:44

Auda

Posts: 246
Joined: Sep. 28 2019

RE: I am moving to Italy (in reply to Ruphus)

quote:

Similar with Cyprus, though (again: If I remember that right) there doors ought to be still open.

I believe they gave everyone a 10% haircut to prop up their banks meaning bank saving accounts were pillaged. This is my last post to this thread as I am here to learn about flamenco.

Cheers

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 13 2019 15:56:08

sartorius

Posts: 206
Joined: Mar. 7 2017

RE: I am moving to Italy (in reply to flyeogh)

Sadly enough, no one is expecting the global economic collapse that's about to happen. The 1929 crash will look like small thing in comparison to what is coming up... First the dollar will lose 30-40% of its value. At that time it will already be too late to react because the Euro will collapse in the row. Currently, everyone is living in Airplane Mode but soon they will switch to Panic Mode. Expect your bank notes to serve as toilet paper then...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 14 2019 9:23:20

Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: I am moving to Italy (in reply to flyeogh)

quote:

For example Simon offers that he can move around and live/work in Europe where he likes. Even that is not clear cut of course.

Pretty clear cut. I have also lived and worked in France, The Netherlands and Spain. Always with finances and/or employment, insurance or paid into the system. Free movement has worked for me, so I am not sure of your distinction. I am not dumping myself on another country.

quote:

I don't offer that question to support Brexit but I do wish those on both sides would think carefully about others prior to stating what they think is an obvious conclusion.

I have been watching and thinking carefully about it for three years. I drew my own conclusions, applied for the Irish citizenship, sold everything and moved here.

Anyway, that is my motivation but not the point of the thread, so I am locking it now.

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Foro Flamenco founder and Admin

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 14 2019 9:40:27