RE: new build for a 1987 Reyes style flamenco

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Tom Blackshear

Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008

RE: new build for a 1987 Reyes style... (in reply to VAHE)

quote:

ORIGINAL: VAHE

What is a good top thickness over all ?

It really all depends on the pattern used, and the stiffness of the top wood. If you are talking about the 2003 Reyes plan from the GAL, then the top is thinner, but there are thicker tops from Reyes depending on top stiffness; wood density, etc.

I think the ideal is always check wood density and plan thickness from that point of view. Tone is an illusive factor in all musical instruments and molding any particular type of sound has to come from repetition in the construction phase, learning how certain adjustments determine certain sound effects.

I changed several things on this new build, which I usually don't do, and this threw everything out of kilter from my usual builds.

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Tom Blackshear Guitar maker

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 16 2019 9:01:11

constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1674
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: new build for a 1987 Reyes style... (in reply to Tom Blackshear)

quote:

Do you mean 2.4mm?

Tom--Did you in fact mean 2.4 mm (not 4 mm) as the original top thickness, as El Burdo asked before?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 16 2019 14:29:07

Tom Blackshear

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Joined: Apr. 15 2008

RE: new build for a 1987 Reyes style... (in reply to constructordeguitarras)

Come to think of it, yes, since I've never build a top that was 4 MM.

I just strung up the guitar this morning and it is more to my liking at 2 MM around the center of the top, and it seems to accommodate the tap plate much better.

I don't think the volume is going to be louder but the articulation and string pull is much better. Separation of notes is better; has that lateral pop, instead of string bounce.

I'll try and take a video of it later on when the strings stretch out and solidify. Right now, I'm pleased with the results of thinning the top, The sound has some guts to it, but I don't think it will be as loud like some of my other builds.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 16 2019 15:36:39

Tom Blackshear

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Joined: Apr. 15 2008

RE: new build for a 1987 Reyes style... (in reply to Tom Blackshear)

well, the strings have stretched out and it is as loud as some of my other builds but the top remains stiff with more added ambiente. This puppy is an enigma to say the least; in some ways, muy gitano, and in other ways some sweetness comes out in the treble end.

Now, my goal is to shape off the neck a little more, then put a finish on it. I may go ahead and french polish the entire instrument, myself, since I feel much better with the sound.

I wish I was a better player to show this puppy but perhaps it will be enough to demonstrate the tonal results on this last adjustment. Hopefully, the video will be later this afternoon.

What I can say about the mechanics of it, is that it has much better articulation and snap, under light or heavy playing.

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Tom Blackshear Guitar maker

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 17 2019 17:00:53

Tom Blackshear

Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008

RE: new build for a 1987 Reyes style... (in reply to Tom Blackshear)

OK, here is the video of the last adjustment.

It feels much better.

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Tom Blackshear Guitar maker

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 17 2019 17:20:37

SephardRick

Posts: 358
Joined: Apr. 11 2014

RE: new build for a 1987 Reyes style... (in reply to Tom Blackshear)

Sensational tone, Tom!

All the stuff I like: Throaty bass, Trebles that leap out, and Midrange at the same volume level with the other notes.

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Rick

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 18 2019 13:32:21

Tom Blackshear

Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008

RE: new build for a 1987 Reyes style... (in reply to SephardRick)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SephardRick

Sensational tone, Tom!

All the stuff I like: Throaty bass, Trebles that leap out, and Mid-range at the same volume level with the other notes.

Thanks Rick, It's been a search to find the tone but this is what fine tuning and adjusting top thickness is about. I wish I could have given a better playing demonstration but these hands just don't want to co-operate.

Now, I have to sand some more on the neck profile and sides , then french polish it. The finish- out will definitely change the sound to be more solid, so I'm curious what it might sound like with the tap plate installed.

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Tom Blackshear Guitar maker

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 18 2019 17:49:54

Tom Blackshear

Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008

RE: new build for a 1987 Reyes style... (in reply to Tom Blackshear)

Ugh oh!

I went and adjusted the neck down a bit to take a little flatness out of the center part and something happened.

I understand that neck adjustments can alter the tone a little but this went crazy toward more tonal response; even my wife said, WOW!

This is getting ridiculous, Folks. I'm going to have to claim this project like the Spaniards; when all of the mistakes come together, it's a miracle!

The articulation for the left hand has improved, as well as tonal function. I can dig in with the thumb to get that flamenco pop!.........but with certain musical undertones that linger after a chord is pulled.

So, I'll have to say that thinning the top from 2.4 MM down to 2 MM really helped to push it in the right direction; with this particular pattern.

So, after I sand the sides smooth I'll try and video the guitar's sound one last time before french polishing it.

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Tom Blackshear Guitar maker

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 19 2019 9:04:31

Tom Blackshear

Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008

RE: new build for a 1987 Reyes style... (in reply to Tom Blackshear)

Here's the 4th video comparison. The first string seems a little strident but that was my technique, more than the 1st string being off.

This was after the neck being altered by taking more wood off.

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Tom Blackshear Guitar maker

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 19 2019 20:04:27

Tom Blackshear

Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008

RE: new build for a 1987 Reyes style... (in reply to Tom Blackshear)

Well Folks,

The guitar just went to the shop of Lucio Nunez, San Antonio, to be finished in lacquer and I'll do the top in french polish.

So it could take a month to finish everything out. I've got the house up for sale, so I hope I can finish this puppy before a move.

The guitar sounds strong but I'll have to see what the finish does to the final tone.

BTW, Andy, nice looking blanca, hope to hear some music from it.

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Tom Blackshear Guitar maker

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 6 2019 9:49:02

Tom Blackshear

Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008

RE: new build for a 1987 Reyes style... (in reply to Tom Blackshear)

Lucio Nunez brought the guitar back to my shop today, after he had finished the sides, back and neck with Lacquer. Good job.

Now it's up to me to french polish the top and then have Lucio compound out his finish to a nice shine.

I'll work with the polish for a couple of weeks, then send it to Lucio. This guitar has caused me a lot of trouble but it seems to be on its way to be something special; we'll see.

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Tom Blackshear Guitar maker

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 22 2019 1:38:30

Tom Blackshear

Posts: 2304
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RE: new build for a 1987 Reyes style... (in reply to Tom Blackshear)

Well Folks, the current news is that I just got out of the hospital after 2 weeks, with the last week of Chemo, and I feel OK but it all depends where the ultimate crash will be in a couple of weeks to start rebuilding my stamina.

As it is, the current guitar will be finished with Lacquer by Lucio Nunez, which is active at the time. Maybe, in a couple of weeks I'll know how it turned out.

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Tom Blackshear Guitar maker

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 20 2019 0:12:41

constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1674
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: new build for a 1987 Reyes style... (in reply to Tom Blackshear)

Best wishes, Tom. Take care of yourself.

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www.edluthier.com
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 20 2019 18:10:11

RobF

Posts: 1611
Joined: Aug. 24 2017

RE: new build for a 1987 Reyes style... (in reply to Tom Blackshear)

Tom, take care, rest and recuperate. The guitar will be just fine with a lacquered top.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 20 2019 23:55:17

Richard Jernigan

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Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA

RE: new build for a 1987 Reyes style... (in reply to Tom Blackshear)

Take good care of yourself, Tom. Best wishes for a speedy and solid recovery.

RNJ

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 21 2019 1:41:11

BarkellWH

Posts: 3458
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: new build for a 1987 Reyes style... (in reply to Tom Blackshear)

Sorry to hear about the illness, Tom. Hope all goes well and you have a speedy recovery. In the meantime, take it easy and proceed a step at a time.

Bill

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 21 2019 2:22:32

Tom Blackshear

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RE: new build for a 1987 Reyes style... (in reply to Richard Jernigan)

Thank you everyone, I very much appreciate your concern and good wishes.

In two weeks I'll start another round of out-patient Chemo once a week for a month, and then it should be complete.

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Tom Blackshear Guitar maker

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 21 2019 2:22:50

Echi

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Joined: Jan. 11 2013

RE: new build for a 1987 Reyes style... (in reply to Tom Blackshear)

Sad to listen that.
Take really good care of your self.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 21 2019 12:34:18

Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: new build for a 1987 Reyes style... (in reply to Tom Blackshear)

All the best for a speedy recovery, Tom.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 21 2019 15:46:25

Tom Blackshear

Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008

RE: new build for a 1987 Reyes style... (in reply to Escribano)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Escribano

All the best for a speedy recovery, Tom.

Thanks again, everyone

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Tom Blackshear Guitar maker

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 21 2019 20:28:06

Tom Blackshear

Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008

RE: new build for a 1987 Reyes style... (in reply to Tom Blackshear)

Well, Lucio may be bringing the guitar to my shop this coming Monday, if everything is alright with its finish.

Boy! This has really been an experience for me, and most likely a pain in the butt for this list.

Hopefully there will be a positive turn-out of interesting tonal response.

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Tom Blackshear Guitar maker

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 20 2019 18:14:40

Tom Blackshear

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RE: new build for a 1987 Reyes style... (in reply to Tom Blackshear)

It seems that everything is in place and in working order.

I'm not happy with the guitar, as the very best I can do but it has good points to it that will sell on the market.

I'm going to try and keep the guitar until Carlos visits my shop in December, to see if the top will open up some more tonally. Right now it's a little tight.

The top is a very nice piece of Engelmann Spruce with beautiful crossing rays.

I'm open for all offers to buy, but guys, please make them with-in reason:-)

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Tom Blackshear Guitar maker

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 22 2019 16:50:33

JasonM

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Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: new build for a 1987 Reyes style... (in reply to Tom Blackshear)

Well I don’t know Tom, because the guitar sounded really good from what I can gather from the last video. Have things changed after finishing the guitar? Is the string tension tight?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 22 2019 23:39:05

Tom Blackshear

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Joined: Apr. 15 2008

RE: new build for a 1987 Reyes style... (in reply to JasonM)

I took it upon myself to do more fine tuning today and it now has propio sello.

Even my wife likes it

I have got to touch up some small places on the top and then let it rest for a while; playing a little everyday to age the spruce and tonal dimension.

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Tom Blackshear Guitar maker

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 24 2019 2:33:34

Tom Blackshear

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RE: new build for a 1987 Reyes style... (in reply to Tom Blackshear)

This is the rare time that the top is finished with lacquer, and so I had to do more fine tuning. But the good point is that I followed the same procedure and polished the braces a little more until the sound came out with the tonal adjustment.

The trick is not to thin the braces too much and create too much noise.

The braces work like a see saw for top to bottom. Thin the bottom to get higher frequency and the top near the sound hole to get a lower frequency. Thin the length of the brace, on top, to get a louder sound, as a rule.

However, guitars are always going to be different, so there has to be a point of reconcile with each one.

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Tom Blackshear Guitar maker

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 24 2019 16:01:40

Richard Jernigan

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From: Austin, Texas USA

RE: new build for a 1987 Reyes style... (in reply to Tom Blackshear)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Blackshear

I took it upon myself to do more fine tuning today and it now has propio sello.

Even my wife likes it

Glad to hear it Tom.

RNJ

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 24 2019 19:39:31

Tom Blackshear

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Joined: Apr. 15 2008

RE: new build for a 1987 Reyes style... (in reply to Richard Jernigan)

Sometimes things just happen without having total control.

It's always a shot in the dark to some extent.

I'll try and play it in a little to show how it has progressed but I want to give it a few days for the strings to stretch out completely.

This guitar is still a rare happening so I probably won't build this again, as it was too difficult to fine tune.

As it is, I got the character and tone I want but the guitar is still like a wild young horse,(mustang), that needs to be tamed; high spirited with a sweet under belly

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Tom Blackshear Guitar maker

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 24 2019 22:54:47

Tom Blackshear

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Joined: Apr. 15 2008

RE: new build for a 1987 Reyes style... (in reply to Tom Blackshear)

OK here's a half hearted attempt to make the guitar sound good. Actually, it sounds better if a player would do it.

And actually it sounds better with a tap plate; more solid sounding.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 26 2019 20:11:52

RobF

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RE: new build for a 1987 Reyes style... (in reply to Tom Blackshear)

There’s something weird going on with the sound in the recording, but even with that, you can tell the guitar sounds great. I think your work is done, and you can let time do the rest.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 26 2019 20:24:12

Tom Blackshear

Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008

RE: new build for a 1987 Reyes style... (in reply to RobF)

Its a natural reverb in the guitar but a tap plate makes it more solid with acceptable under tones.

I'll try and play it again, later today, with the tap plate.

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Tom Blackshear Guitar maker

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 26 2019 21:47:57