RE: French polish - bodying sessions

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Echi

Posts: 1132
Joined: Jan. 11 2013

RE: French polish - bodying sessions (in reply to kominak)

That’s how shellac should be.
Now there’s that fashion for glass like finishes, which I find both unnatural and unreasonable, being so soft.
The traditional french polish is much nicer, organic and routed in the tradition of the old masters.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 4 2019 8:03:35

Stephen Eden

Posts: 914
Joined: Apr. 12 2008
From: UK

RE: French polish - bodying sessions (in reply to Echi)

That's just a question of differing resources. It's not difficult to get a flat glass like finish these days as we all have access to extremely fine grades of abrasives and burnishing creams.

I'm sure the old masters would also have loved to have got the glass like finishes if they had access to the same resources we do.

It takes roughly 1 extra hour of fine grade sanding 5 minutes of glazing and 15 minutes of buffing!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 5 2019 9:39:39

Tom Blackshear

Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008

RE: French polish - bodying sessions (in reply to Stephen Eden)

quote:

It takes roughly 1 extra hour of fine grade sanding 5 minutes of glazing and 15 minutes of buffing!

Miguel Rodriguez usually had fine finishes that would be next to a glass burnish, so I think this is not a problem except for the probability that it takes up to a year for the finish to polymerize and become hard enough to resist wear.

I know of some Spanish guitar builders, names go unmentioned, whose finishes are still subject to softening in humid weather.

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Tom Blackshear Guitar maker

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 5 2019 9:52:54

JasonM

Posts: 2054
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: French polish - bodying sessions (in reply to Stephen Eden)

When did sandpaper come about? Because holy cow using pumice poor filling takes forever as I just discovered. I would not want to have to do an entire set of rosewood this way.

When leveling the finish with ~ 2000 grit paper why don’t you start lower and work your way up in grit, or do you?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 5 2019 15:27:34

Stephen Eden

Posts: 914
Joined: Apr. 12 2008
From: UK

RE: French polish - bodying sessions (in reply to Echi)

Tom - up to A year for a French polish to dry is pretty standard stuff isn't it?. Regardless of how it was left in its final state. That is why I offer all of my direct customers a free top up polish between 6 months and a year. this way the finish will look better for longer.

Jason - I level with 800 inbetween the build up sessions only focussing taking off the peaks otherwise you don't build up fast enough. My building up sessions get shorter and shorter which means I have to less leveling. The last time I use the 800 I pretty much do a 20 minute glaze then move to the 2000 and glaze.

According to Wiki Glass paper was starting to get mass produced in 1833 in London. So it would have been around.

Ahh pumicing always feels difficult and annoying but after cutting back and resanding well over 100 guitars that had been filled with epoxy I decided that I just prefered it. Some guys I've spoken to say they can have the grain filled in a day! I take 2 to 3 days but perhaps because I limit the amount of time a spend in one session.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 5 2019 18:29:57

Tom Blackshear

Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008

RE: French polish - bodying sessions (in reply to Stephen Eden)

quote:

Tom - up to A year for a French polish to dry is pretty standard stuff isn't it?.

Yes Sir, and thanks for the additional information, it always helps.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 5 2019 19:18:43

JasonM

Posts: 2054
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: French polish - bodying sessions (in reply to Stephen Eden)

Stephen, very useful tips as always! I’m going to give them a go.

I guess one needs to be in the right zen mode frame of mind for pumice.

I read up on some sandpaper history, lol.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 6 2019 14:14:44

JasonM

Posts: 2054
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: French polish - bodying sessions (in reply to JasonM)

So there is a spot on my top that is giving me problems. After I applied an initial seal coat on the top I noticed a scratch and I sanded it out. Then I went back with another seal coat. Now I’m about 5 sessions into polishing and that spot that I sanded seems like it won’t take any shellac. It stays rough and a slightly lighter hue. Every time I go over it doesn’t make much difference. You guys encounter this before?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 8 2019 20:47:11

Stephen Eden

Posts: 914
Joined: Apr. 12 2008
From: UK

RE: French polish - bodying sessions (in reply to Echi)

Yeah definitely Zen, I've just done two days of pumicing. The second day was easier to pumice but obvisouly harder on the cut back. Same again today no doubt.

I have had that patchy problem a few times. I'm never quite sure what I've done that solves the problem though. I'll try adding a little bit to that area then leave it for a day. I'll also try pumicing the area around it and push the paste into the effected area. I also try adding a heavy cut of polish to the area.

Hope that helps!

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Classical and Flamenco Guitars www.EdenGuitars.co.uk

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 9 2019 9:26:16

JasonM

Posts: 2054
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: French polish - bodying sessions (in reply to Stephen Eden)

It’s so bizarre. Like an infected area that won’t heal. So far I’ve tried adding extra shellac to the area. I’m thinking that the shellac must be getting pulled up or something. Thanks for the tips. Maybe I’ll just sand it back

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 9 2019 13:38:30

Tom Blackshear

Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008

RE: French polish - bodying sessions (in reply to JasonM)

I don't know why you guys haven't tried the water based filer I posted back earlier on one of my threads. It worked quite well, and was fairly fast as a builder base, sanded lightly with #320 paper to knock off any slight marks.

Usually the work was done fast with 3 light coats before french polish.

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Tom Blackshear Guitar maker

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 9 2019 17:50:50

JasonM

Posts: 2054
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: French polish - bodying sessions (in reply to Tom Blackshear)

Hey Tom, I missed that post but I will give this Aqua coat stuff a go next time. Do you use it to fill the neck too?
I used end grain wood dust and shellac to fill the bulk of the pores. I found it can be tricky because you can get blotches if you over do it.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 9 2019 19:09:28

Tom Blackshear

Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008

RE: French polish - bodying sessions (in reply to JasonM)

The filler works well on most porous wood. Cedar necks are fine with it.

I just sand it back to the wood and shellac over it.

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Tom Blackshear Guitar maker

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 9 2019 19:39:53