RE: new build for a 1987 Reyes style flamenco

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Tom Blackshear

Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008

RE: new build for a 1987 Reyes style... (in reply to constructordeguitarras)

Thanks Ethan, I think I got it figured out, so I'll go ahead and install the board and let Lucio finish off the guitar with lacquer and I'll French polish the top.

I finally had to revamp some of my jigs to make it work right.

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Tom Blackshear Guitar maker

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 8 2019 20:37:44

Tom Blackshear

Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008

RE: new build for a 1987 Reyes style... (in reply to Tom Blackshear)

Well, I've installed the fingerboard, then to prepare the nut and string it up and to see what she sounds like.

I've done something a little different on this board; I've installed the frets before I glued the board on, so we'll see if there is any benefit to this procedure.

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Tom Blackshear Guitar maker

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 24 2019 17:34:27

Tom Blackshear

Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008

RE: new build for a 1987 Reyes style... (in reply to Tom Blackshear)

I have this puppy strung up and it's interesting to find that the top key is G-G# certainly thicker than what I'm used to building.

I'm toying with the idea of taking off the bridge and sanding down the top to G-F#.

Solid sounding but needs to open up more. Or I could say, just let the top open up with age.

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Tom Blackshear Guitar maker

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 12 2019 6:52:21

Tom Blackshear

Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008

RE: new build for a 1987 Reyes style... (in reply to Tom Blackshear)

Hello again,

There is a short side of this story that wants to make me cry, and that is, I think the top is too thick, which means the sound is too stiff for my taste.

What to do about it? Sand the top down to about 2 MM from 4 MM. The fingerboard is wide, 54 MM at the nut. So this guitar will fit a big hand.

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Tom Blackshear Guitar maker

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 6 2019 19:12:17

constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1672
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: new build for a 1987 Reyes style... (in reply to Tom Blackshear)

I think it has a very nice tone, but 4 mm seem huge to me, never heard of a soundboard so thick.

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Ethan Deutsch
www.edluthier.com
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www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 6 2019 21:24:03

Tom Blackshear

Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008

RE: new build for a 1987 Reyes style... (in reply to constructordeguitarras)

The top is graduated down toward the sides a little but I still think it needs to be thinned out more toward the middle.

The top is fairly stiff and this seems to be the draw back for the sound. It doesn't vibrate with an enter-dimensional sound quality like I'm used to. The last guitar I built, with this pattern, had plenty of that.

Man, I've done a lot of work on this one! It has fought me every step of the way.

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Tom Blackshear Guitar maker

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 6 2019 22:25:19

RobF

Posts: 1611
Joined: Aug. 24 2017

RE: new build for a 1987 Reyes style... (in reply to Tom Blackshear)

I agree with Ethan. At least on my iPad the guitar sounds quite nice and also, yes, 4mm is, well, 4mm. But you must have wanted to experiment with a thick top to have gone down this path so maybe stick with the original game plan and just bring it down to the 3.5mm range, or maybe 3 or 3.2mm? Going all the way from 4mm to 2mm almost seems like capitulation and, from the sound of the video, the guitar is far too nice to do that. I vote for keeping it thick but removing the bridge and doing some adjustments.

(Also, if you go from 4mm to 2mm you’ll probably have to redo the binding.)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 7 2019 2:44:00

El Burdo

Posts: 632
Joined: Sep. 8 2011

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Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Dec. 22 2022 20:01:23

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 7 2019 15:59:33

Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3023
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: new build for a 1987 Reyes style... (in reply to Tom Blackshear)

Yeah looking at the top in the other videos it certainly doesn't appear to be 4 mm thick...
I also think the guitar has a nice tone right now, but it's really hard to tell the nuances without being in the room and playing it.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 7 2019 16:35:16

constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1672
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: new build for a 1987 Reyes style... (in reply to El Burdo)

quote:

Do you mean 2.4mm?

Good question, El Burdo!

Tom--I reiterate, the sound is very nice, a crisp, dry flamenco sound that many guitarists would appreciate. I suggest letting some people play it as is.

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Ethan Deutsch
www.edluthier.com
www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars
www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 7 2019 16:48:47

RobF

Posts: 1611
Joined: Aug. 24 2017

RE: new build for a 1987 Reyes style... (in reply to Tom Blackshear)

quote:

Tom--I reiterate, the sound is very nice, a crisp, dry flamenco sound that many guitarists would appreciate. I suggest letting some people play it as is.

I second that suggestion.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 7 2019 16:59:30

Tom Blackshear

Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008

RE: new build for a 1987 Reyes style... (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

quote:

but it's really hard to tell the nuances without being in the room and playing it.

Yeah! it's the nuance that is lacking; the pulsation is off and not what I'm used to. Could be it's built for a stronger hand but the ideal for me isn't there yet.

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Tom Blackshear Guitar maker

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 7 2019 20:40:16

Tom Blackshear

Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008

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Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Jul. 9 2019 13:34:52

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 8 2019 23:21:25

JasonM

Posts: 2051
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: new build for a 1987 Reyes style... (in reply to Tom Blackshear)

Tom I thought your usual order of operations was to remove the bridge anyway for finishing? Sounds great regardless. I’m about to start polishing this guitar and I debated glueing the bridge on first like you do but I definitely don’t want to remove it again

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 9 2019 14:20:23

Tom Blackshear

Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008

RE: new build for a 1987 Reyes style... (in reply to JasonM)

Removing the bridge takes a little finesse' and using the right glue to release it with a little heat, so if you are not used to this technique then it might be better to follow your own ideas.

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Tom Blackshear Guitar maker

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 9 2019 14:59:14

Tom Blackshear

Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008

RE: new build for a 1987 Reyes style... (in reply to constructordeguitarras)

Ethan,

The difference between the last 1987 Reyes style and this one is quite different. This current top is just not giving its best with the thickness that seems to inhibit its sound quality. So, here is the last guitar I made with the top at about 2 MM.

You can really hear the difference. Same pocket phone recording.

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Tom Blackshear Guitar maker

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 10 2019 8:31:47

constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1672
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: new build for a 1987 Reyes style... (in reply to Tom Blackshear)

quote:

The difference between the last 1987 Reyes style and this one is quite different.

Sure, but there isn't only one good sound. Just like there isn't only one woman who is beautiful.

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Ethan Deutsch
www.edluthier.com
www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars
www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 10 2019 15:57:50

Tom Blackshear

Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008

RE: new build for a 1987 Reyes style... (in reply to constructordeguitarras)

quote:

ORIGINAL: constructordeguitarras

quote:

The difference between the last 1987 Reyes style and this one is quite different.

Sure, but there isn't only one good sound. Just like there isn't only one woman who is beautiful.

OK, I've got an idea about opening up the sound that I haven't used for a long time. I learned it in Felix Manzanero's shop in Madrid in 1965. I'll let you know if it works.

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Tom Blackshear Guitar maker

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 10 2019 18:46:12

Tom Blackshear

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Joined: Apr. 15 2008

RE: new build for a 1987 Reyes style... (in reply to Tom Blackshear)

Well, here is the correction Tell me what you think.

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Tom Blackshear Guitar maker

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 12 2019 19:47:32

Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3023
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: new build for a 1987 Reyes style... (in reply to Tom Blackshear)

Tom,
I listened back and forth with my eyes closed a few times, and I think it sounds a little more open in the treble now, less choked off.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 12 2019 20:29:47

constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1672
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: new build for a 1987 Reyes style... (in reply to Tom Blackshear)

quote:

Well, here is the correction Tell me what you think.

I liked it better before.

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Ethan Deutsch
www.edluthier.com
www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars
www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 13 2019 3:24:31

Tom Blackshear

Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008

RE: new build for a 1987 Reyes style... (in reply to constructordeguitarras)

quote:

ORIGINAL: constructordeguitarras

quote:

Well, here is the correction Tell me what you think.

I liked it better before.

Yeah, it flattened out the sound and did give a better transference of sound but it looks like I'm going to have to take off the bridge and thin out the top a little.

What I did was try too many different things at once to boost the sound. What a mistake.

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Tom Blackshear Guitar maker

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 13 2019 13:49:24

VAHE

Posts: 82
Joined: Sep. 25 2014
From: ARMENIAN (living in U.S.)

RE: new build for a 1987 Reyes style... (in reply to Tom Blackshear)

Hello Tom , what scale is it , is it 650mm or 655mm ?

Thanks

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 13 2019 19:18:49

Tom Blackshear

Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008

RE: new build for a 1987 Reyes style... (in reply to VAHE)

quote:

ORIGINAL: VAHE

Hello Tom , what scale is it , is it 650mm or 655mm ?

Thanks

VAHE,

It is 655 MM and the LMI neck, made by Manuel Adalid, was too off measurement to give an easy fit. Manuel's older neck forms to me were fine but the LMI change makes it too difficult to get a good fit without a lot of work.

Also, thinning the top should bring back some earthy tone and articulation. I'll not let this puppy out of the shop unless I'm happy with it.

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Tom Blackshear Guitar maker

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 13 2019 21:13:56

Tom Blackshear

Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008

RE: new build for a 1987 Reyes style... (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Culpepper

Tom,
I listened back and forth with my eyes closed a few times, and I think it sounds a little more open in the treble now, less choked off.

Thanks Andy,

Your are right about the treble but the whole dimensional quality took a nose dive into a lessor tone than desired. I've heard some Condes near that but this guitar is not near enough.

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Tom Blackshear Guitar maker

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 13 2019 21:23:29

VAHE

Posts: 82
Joined: Sep. 25 2014
From: ARMENIAN (living in U.S.)

RE: new build for a 1987 Reyes style... (in reply to Tom Blackshear)

I like the sound on both of it , but i preferred the first one . In a studio engineering world we call it tweaking the EQ'S a little bit toward the high end , But don't forget you need all the EQ frequencies there . Its the player preference .

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 13 2019 21:36:45

Tom Blackshear

Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008

RE: new build for a 1987 Reyes style... (in reply to VAHE)

Thanks for the input but I'm used to building a loud tablao guitar with dimensional qualities that don't stop at the front door.

And to do this requires certain adjustments with a thinner top. I've heard thicker tops that were louder than this one so I'll have to thin it out a little more to get the desired feed back and vibration that I'm used to.

The recording device I used was my wife's pocket phone, so that wasn't much help.

I understand frequencies as a natural feel from building for 58 years, and this is just not right. But there is still hope that it can work, after a little loving touch.

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Tom Blackshear Guitar maker

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 14 2019 12:04:43

SephardRick

Posts: 358
Joined: Apr. 11 2014

RE: new build for a 1987 Reyes style... (in reply to Tom Blackshear)

The July 10th video sounds best IMHO. A little more open and lively.

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Rick

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 15 2019 18:50:12

Tom Blackshear

Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008

RE: new build for a 1987 Reyes style... (in reply to SephardRick)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SephardRick

The July 10th video sounds best IMHO. A little more open and lively.

Rick,

I took the bridge off and thinned the top to about 2MM in the middle with about 2.1 MM on the outside edges. The thicker edges will allow me to sand down a little if necessary, otherwise I'll leave the top as is. The upper bout is about 2.2 MM.

I'll try and string-up the guitar tomorrow, some time later in the afternoon. Maybe a video in a couple of days.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 15 2019 19:11:39