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Hands injured
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El Burdo
Posts: 632
Joined: Sep. 8 2011
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RE: Hands injured (in reply to Cervantes)
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In general, I think psychologically you should be prepared to wait for a good deal of time, dependent on your age, the older, the longer. I still try and run 'long' distances and last year developed plantar fasciopathy in my right foot. I tried to run through it, got better slightly over 4 months but eventually did some real damage during a subsequent race. After a week or so, limping about, I continued to run through it and... developed tendonopathy in the same leg. I tried to run through that too with no improvement and plenty of pain. After almost a year of ignoring the advice, I finally took three months off, doing exercises, stretches, ice, massage etc etc and now I can run with no problems. Had I done this 15 months ago I would have been fixed in three months and not develop subsequent problems. Stopping indulging a passion is very difficult but where the advice is just to stop, I've decided it's worth taking, through gritted teeth.
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Date May 7 2019 17:35:42
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Cervantes
Posts: 503
Joined: Jun. 14 2014
From: Encinitas, CA USA
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RE: Hands injured (in reply to El Burdo)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: El Burdo In general, I think psychologically you should be prepared to wait for a good deal of time, dependent on your age, the older, the longer. I still try and run 'long' distances and last year developed plantar fasciopathy in my right foot. I tried to run through it, got better slightly over 4 months but eventually did some real damage during a subsequent race. After a week or so, limping about, I continued to run through it and... developed tendonopathy in the same leg. I tried to run through that too with no improvement and plenty of pain. After almost a year of ignoring the advice, I finally took three months off, doing exercises, stretches, ice, massage etc etc and now I can run with no problems. Had I done this 15 months ago I would have been fixed in three months and not develop subsequent problems. Stopping indulging a passion is very difficult but where the advice is just to stop, I've decided it's worth taking, through gritted teeth. You just described me exactly. I am 61 and a life long cyclist. A year and half ago I started having pain in my right hip. I kept riding anyway and saw a lot of doctors. Now I have not ridden since last October and it is driving me crazy. Now I am just trying to live without cycling. Flamenco was a good outlet for me but now I need to stop that too. At least I know my hands will likely get better with a few weeks rest. Thanks for sharing.
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Ah well, there was a fantastic passion there, in my case anyway. I discovered flamenco very early on. It grips you in a way that you can't get away - Paco Pena
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Date May 8 2019 2:08:19
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Ruphus
Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
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RE: Hands injured (in reply to Cervantes)
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The very most of exercises will not strain in an even way / will mean one sided demand. Doing stretches a likes will do only so much / mean symptomatic approach. Same with massages, ointments, supports, surgery etc. Causal approach to muscular imbalance and its effects on skeleton, cartilage, tendon, neural issue is a plain and most effective answer in practice. Approach I have seen regularly curing within incredibly short time. Relatively even with long time indications. However, straight forward solutions are generally not very popular with consumer mentality that prefers to delegate problem solving. ("Mothers little helpers".) Besides: True that the body will change with age (while cerebral speed already declining upwards from 18), however when taken the little of time to keep muscles in balance, aging differs in so many ways (including much feared arthritis). As you know there can easily be differences in physical age in dimensions of decades. Like say 70 year old chaps fitter than many people with 35. Anyway, don´t listen to charlatan me and keep limping or pausing along! ;O/
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Date May 8 2019 15:03:41
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rombsix
Posts: 7808
Joined: Jan. 11 2006
From: Beirut, Lebanon
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RE: Hands injured (in reply to Cervantes)
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quote:
You just described me exactly. I am 61 and a life long cyclist. A year and half ago I started having pain in my right hip. I kept riding anyway and saw a lot of doctors. Now I have not ridden since last October and it is driving me crazy. Now I am just trying to live without cycling. Flamenco was a good outlet for me but now I need to stop that too. At least I know my hands will likely get better with a few weeks rest. Thanks for sharing. Hey man - I had a similar problem. In fact, I have a lot of mechanical issues. My body is not the sturdiest and I don't take care of it well. You'll be surprised if you rest that a couple of things may happen: 1- When you get back to playing, you will feel like Paco de Lucia (because you've missed it so much). 2- Your injuries will heal and you will be able to really enjoy playing again because you're using a sound body to play, and you may have all along not realized that there was something off which was limiting your ability to improve or enjoy (or both). 3- You'll find pleasure in other things in life a simple as just sitting down and looking out the window, going for a walk outside, reading some books / material you've wanted to learn more about but have not been able to because you were too occupied with other stuff, etc. I would also consider taking some supplements - I use magnesium, zinc, calcium, vitamin D, vitamin B, fish oil. When I sleep well and I take these regularly, it really helps me. Hang in there my friend.
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Ramzi http://www.youtube.com/rombsix
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Date May 8 2019 17:41:38
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Ruphus
Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
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RE: Hands injured (in reply to El Burdo)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: El Burdo quote:
Causal approach to muscular imbalance and its effects on skeleton, cartilage, tendon, neural issue is a plain and most effective answer in practice That might be true in establishing what caused the problem but it isn't a fix for it. Runner's knee, for example is caused by the kneecap not being correctly pulled into position across the joint - so it grates against the bone. In the long term adequately exercising the muscles responsible for pulling the kneecap into position (the glutes) will mean the injury is unlikely to repeat. But, they won't improve the pain in the knee because they did not cause the pain. Their lack of proper use caused the pain. Treating the cause is not the same as treating the effect. Do the stuff that improves things in the short term, the ice, massage etc then do the strategic stuff, training the glutes etc over the long term. That is not delegating problem solving, it's problem solving. Knees and atlas are evolutionary human imperfections / predetermined breaking points so to say. However, these delicacies don´t come in an isolated way, but in conjunction with imbalance and induced false posture / coordination. Often main bad state not even close to the acute problem. (Like for instance upper, lower back or feet effecting knees.) Issues with ligaments are literally connected to muscles. Nothing against comforting plasters, but they will not remove anything causally. What works is to not continue wrong practice (as you sound as if I was recommending such), but to introduce according exercises and strengthening / balance. These will not dynamically strain on the accrued injuries and allow for controlled application below pain threshold, while bearing the fastest muscular rebuild possible. However, there will be no reach by ignoring and evading from start. The physicians whose appreciation has been gained on the way weren´t introduced to the right approach through lengthy explanation either, but through acute relieving and simply healing their patients in no time. Patients sometimes in treatment for many years even. Others with date for surgery too, who then happily cancelled. Just get used to the idea that some things do not need to be too awkward and that not every pointer against common procedures is a frivolous. My old man taught me to listen to everyone regardless of reputation or social ranking, and check out then. To my experience a good advice. - In modern realm (unlike undeveloped places where docs still behave incredibly lofty and irresponsible) wise physicians have stepped down from pedestal voluntarily, being vary of own competence / obtaining second opinion from colleagues, seeking holistic insight, while specialist chapters looking for synergy, and pharmacologists understanding that there is wide resource among native healers and botany that they could have never come up with by themselves, etc. (Now analytically and experimentally supported by algorithms.) It is rather patients who keep looking for physicians as countryman or whatever else that makes them hope for authority / trustworthiness. So, no wonder how whom we knew as best dentists in towns by trade, wouldn´t necessarily be most reputated among local folks in the same time, -while a highly accepted guy made it to being a provinces head of chamber in spite of being a true butcher. Anyway, be prepared for gradually establishing insights (what I am recommending here is already seeping in since years, yet for most made use of in late physiotherapy, only neither fully nor widespread yet) in the subjects / don´t be too stiff with what may seem to be current up to date approach and thinking. Just remember: The largely immobilizing and suspending times of plastering, insoles etc. are from not too long ago. With sustaining / improving concepts like countering or strengthening measures like foot gymnastics or a ball in the slipper existing, but scraping a bare living then. ... And while rambling: Just look at the orthopedically still vastly miserable shaping of footwear, determined in historical and silly perception of aesthetics. As I´ve said before: Take your common shoe, sneakers or what have you and hold its sole against your foot. (At best in the evening.) See how much slimmer it is than your foot? Having not even overcome such stupidity of skeleton crippling, hallus valgus, knees and spine issues causing fashion ... how can you expect our medicine to have broadly discovered the knees bees already. Not to downplay research. It seems progressing greatly for most these days. But the gap between discoveries and common practice tends to remain too broad and lasting. Partially for reasons of economy, and too often still for ordinary ones of stubbornness (which I am aiming at here). - One of the things I teach as general base before martial art is correct walking. Most urban people would not even imagine how that works.
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Date May 9 2019 11:18:29
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El Burdo
Posts: 632
Joined: Sep. 8 2011
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RE: Hands injured (in reply to Ruphus)
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quote:
Take your common shoe, sneakers or what have you and hold its sole against your foot. (At best in the evening.) See how much slimmer it is than your foot? Having not even overcome such stupidity of skeleton crippling, hallus valgus, knees and spine issues causing fashion ... how can you expect our medicine to have broadly discovered the knees bees already. When I say 'rest' I mean rest from the activity which resulted in the problem. Lack of activity won't help, but activity which addresses the injury (not the cause) is a good idea. That would be ice, massage, pressure etc where appropriate. I am not talking about medical conjurers, or high-falutin' quacks - in the UK we are almost always referred to Physiotherapists who will prescribe the appropriate stretches etc. I don't think these are people who are seeking the 'knees bees'. But they will know what muscles are used with the knees. If you saw a Chinese therapist, they may deal with the bottom of the foot directly, but that doesn't have traction in British health so far. The only thing used from Chinese medicine is acupuncture, simply as pain relief. But then, so is hypnotism. I buy Vivobarefoot shoes for ordinary day walking in the street which are minimal barefoot shoes essentially. They are sold on the basis that they address the whole foot sole - and hence the liver, kidneys , blood etc etc. Unfortunately, Neanderthal man was not designed to walk about on pavement slabs and I have found that some minimal support in the heel was needed. I also have inserted a antipronation insert as my arches were falling - I would be surprised if Chinese foot analysis would find a solution to falling arches. I bought the barefoot shoes because I had run out of shoes that I could wear. And you're concern is addressed - they are REALLY wide! My foot is smaller than the shoes and although I have to walk slightly differently (probably 'correct' walking) I think they are a major help - no more calf pain, hip pain, knee pain - even though I wondered if they contributed to the plantar fasciitis (I don't think they started it, at least). I have hallux rigidus too, and it is quite manageable. (For running shoes I use a more substantial pair though nothing like the 12mm drop monsters from the past). All in all, you use lots of circumlocutory language but if you are saying, 'address the cause' - and that the cause may not be quite so obvious when the effect is observed, then I agree. But science moves slow. At the moment no-one knows how to deal with Plantar Fasciopathy, though plenty of research has been done. It's REST that seems to work. Certainly not surgery, which unless there is no other option, is barely ever a good idea. It's the muscles, stupid (Clinton W).
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Date May 9 2019 20:40:45
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Ruphus
Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
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RE: Hands injured (in reply to El Burdo)
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Agreed on some of things, while certain points appear to remain worth further regard. Having just looked them up, the Vivothingis look good in terms of width and lateral shape, however the makers should have known that the heel needs a slight lift, as such is commonly known since quite a while already. The barefoot shoes (which I noticed before) with the separate toes always looked interesting to me, but never saw them in real life, while hoping that the lateral spreading of toes won´t provoke hallux valgus. (Who knows, maybe they even work as prophylaxis by introducing involuntary tightening of the ball / pulling against toe spreading [you may tell].) A brand that I am familiar with and whichs sports thingies (not running shoes / got no experience with thelikes) I found to be satisfactory / feeling pretty natural is Bär. The website for plantar fasciopathy quite seems to support my statement. https://plantarfasciopathy.org/ quote:
conventional management often was, and still is, aimed at reducing or controlling the inflammatory process (rest, ice, anti-inflammatory medications, splinting, immobilization, etc.). Although acute (sudden, short term) cases of plantar fascia disorders may have a significant element of inflammation, those that last longer (chronic, meaning greater than 6-12 weeks), do not have much, if any, inflammation present. Most cases of chronic plantar fasciitis are resistant to treatments that try to reduce inflammation. What is often seen with these conventional anti-inflammatory treatments is that during the treatment process the patient’s activity is usually limited and the patient may feel a little better. However, once they return to the activity, the symptoms return. This sets up a vicious cycle of taking time off from activity to decrease symptoms, followed by a return of symptoms when activity is resumed. Regarding stretching in physiotherapy, this will work for repositioning deranged situation, albeit not be contributing in terms of eliminating any causal issue. -Just as stretching won´t be doing much in general anyway. It will however specifically very much do in conjunction with isometric contraction for initiating addition of muscle fibers lengthwise (while replacing tendon) on the way to prolongation for establishing mentioned balance. As I said: Basically a not too complicated thing to realize. ... Like besides with a number of reasonably plain things in life, that mustn´t really be too twisted. ... While recognition notwithstandingly moving slow, as you mentioned already.
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Date May 11 2019 6:14:29
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