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Flamenco Jazz
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BarkellWH
Posts: 3458
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
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 RE: Flamenco Jazz (in reply to Brendan)
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I actually read the entire article and found it interesting, as well as discouraging as far as the future of flamenco as we have known it goes. In other threads I have predicted that flamenco (even in its more "modern" versions) will eventually disappear as a separate genre. What will kill it will be the desperate attempt by flamenco musicians and singers to remain "relevant." It won't disappear immediately, but you can see the slow chipping away of the genre today, and it has been going on for some time.
I suspect that flamenco will eventually be subsumed into some form of "World Music." Peter Manuel's article on "Flamenco Jazz" suggests that the the flow is all one way, i.e., it is not jazz being incorporated into flamenco; rather, it is flamenco being incorporated into jazz. The insidious effect will eventually be the absorption of flamenco into jazz, or World Music, or whatever the "Next Big Thing" is.
Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."
--Rudyard Kipling
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Date Dec. 2 2018 12:33:49
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Ricardo
Posts: 14797
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
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RE: Flamenco Jazz (in reply to Brendan)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Brendan
This article by Peter Manuel is quite a long and dense read, but there is scope for disagreement, so I thought y’all might like it:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1y81qO2R1IxPT5wqy_YLXc2DfAWTvbRXk1JI_fL7wRgQ
Scope? I couldn’t make it past first paragraphs due to wrong dates, chronology and basic info. As a start, here is a simple timeline:
Miles Davis-sketches of spain, kind of blue (late 1950’s)>Chick Corea/John Mclaughlin/Dimeola fusion era (1970’s)>Paco de lucia
Running Parallel to Miles Davis time wise was Carlos Montoya St. Louis to Seville, then Juan Serrano Autumn leaves etc>sabicas tells PDL in NYC to compose his own music (1965)>Paco experiments with Sax project of Garcia Lorca stuff (1969)>records rumba with Al Dimeola 1977>Mclaughlin hear’s Paco and Al and forms trio with Coryell in 1979....the convergence of Jazz guys trying flamenco, and Flamenco guys experimenting with Jazz finally meets with the Trio in 1980 however the seeds were planted in the late 1950’s. It took a long time to reintroduce the compas of solea (Miles “Solea” and Paco’s “Chiquito”) to jazz artists (1958-1983!).
Because the strong influence of both Miles Davis and Paco de Lucia on their respective genres, it’s a no brainer as to how and why the concept of fusing the two styles caught fire and has not really strayed from the forumula that much musically. The main aversion flamenco supporters have is to the instrumentation (how dare a saxophone or trumpet attempt any flamenco?). Conversely few Jazz artists understand flamenco as Miles did (as forms, not just a chord and scale). The truth is the death of Flamenco is due to the lack of variety in the cante...which can be blamed more on the Baile and the Camaron influence than “jazz” of course. Finally, folks seem to forget that there is no more “world music” genre and jazz is also almost dying, because there are no more RECORD STORES in need of such marketing, and the amount of young people learning about advanced music is shrinking exponentially due to the changing world of smart phones and instagram. What we will be left with is “youtube” the place to find any and all interesting music from all times.
_____________________________
CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
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Date Dec. 2 2018 14:55:44
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BarkellWH
Posts: 3458
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
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RE: Flamenco Jazz (in reply to Ricardo)
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quote:
What we will be left with is “youtube” the place to find any and all interesting music from all times.
If, as I suspect and noted in my post above, flamenco as we know it will eventually be dead with no live performances, and as you suggest all we will be left with is "YouTube" with recorded past performances when flamenco was alive, I find that a very poor trade-off. Flamenco will still be dead, although its past will be "preserved in the amber" of YouTube. It will not be a living art form, which makes it such a vibrant genre.
Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."
--Rudyard Kipling
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Date Dec. 2 2018 16:15:04
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BarkellWH
Posts: 3458
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
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RE: Flamenco Jazz (in reply to Ricardo)
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quote:
Flamenco continues to thrive amongst gypsy communities in the age old manner since 1800’s where people like you or me are not invited....all these folks do your jazz fusion as well as they please) but have no fear that their very personal traditional music might disappear:
That could well be, and I have always said that flamenco as we know it may survive in very small niche communities. But I am afraid that such music will have to be sought out by ethno-musicologists (much like Allan Lomax). But the direction flamenco is going suggests to me that the larger community of aficionados (such as members of the Foro) will no longer see flamenco performances, other than, as you suggest, on YouTube, which I consider small consolation. But that's just my opinion, and I may be wrong.
Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."
--Rudyard Kipling
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Dec. 4 2018 21:12:27
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Oh, he means those musicians you can count on one hand that did some fusion like 30 years ago.
