fretless bass

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fretless bass

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Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

fretless bass

In the tradition of Ron, that is throwing out a controversial statement :), I wonder what people here think of fretless bass. I mean, in modern guitar, you have cajones and you have these fretless basses.... It's the "sound". Do you guys like it?

Myself, I never have. It sounds like farting to me. Why don't flamencos use regular electric basses? Does that sound bad or something?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 10 2006 13:56:00

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: fretless bass (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

An electric bass can also be fretless, but you mean "bass guitar", which is acoustic I guess?
I never heard an acoustic bass, but E-Bass can sound great, as in Todd's Rumba and Alegria vid. Maybe Siguiriya would not fit to it...

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 10 2006 14:02:47

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: fretless bass (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

quote:

It sounds like farting to me

Mike...me too! LOL!

Also that little whistling sound like a "Thermion" or somebody turning up the frequency of a sine wave generator like in "Star Trek" sound effects.
Is that done by pinging harmonics and sliding up the fretboard?

But I guess that's the "cool" sound...and lots of folk obviously love it.

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 10 2006 16:00:25

Ricardo

Posts: 14806
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: fretless bass (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

Yeah it can sound obnoxious at times. But it really is not the instrument to blame. It is the player. There are bass players that lay it down, it is subtle or even just a feeling of bottom end. Then there are the Patitucci wannabes that need to interject lead lines. That is a big distraction, but it really depends on the music and the taste of the player. Gerardo uses acoustic bass in his trio. There are times you can barely hear the guy, but you can feel the low notes certainly.

Ricardo

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 10 2006 16:12:05

Guest

RE: fretless bass (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

I join the no to fretless electric bass guitar... farting is the word

I love the sound of an acoustic double bass like in G. Nunez trio.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 10 2006 16:34:15

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: fretless bass (in reply to Guest)

quote:

I love the sound of an acoustic double bass like in G. Nunez trio

Yeah...he's great!
Sounds like he's had a Classical training or something..
Really subtle with great harmonies.

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 10 2006 17:11:40

ToddK

Posts: 2961
Joined: Dec. 6 2004

RE: fretless bass (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

I love the sound of fretless bass. Especially Carlos's tone.

Also always loved Jaco Pastorious's sound as well.

This is all personal preference of course.

I could liken the sound of flamenco guitar to something ugly or vulgar too.

But beauty is in the ears of the beholder.

What seems stupid to me is to liken the sound to something vulgar, and
using that as a reason. I mean, really, how kintergarden is that??
What if farts didnt sound like they do? what excuse would you use to
dislike the bass?
I think it sounds absolutley beautiful, much like a baratone voice.
The fretless bass is very close sonic cousin to Cello, wich i also love so much,
i just bought one 2 days ago.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 10 2006 18:19:53

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: fretless bass (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

Can we expect a "Todd on Cello"-Video in the next weeks?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 10 2006 18:23:44

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: fretless bass (in reply to XXX)

Now that's a thought...
Alzapua or Rasgueado on a Cello!
Ow!...makes my fingers hurt!
One of the things I really appreciate about Todd is that he has this "musician's soul"..
and that is why he is so great at Flamenco, Classical...or whatever!
That's a rare talent IMO.

cheers

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 10 2006 20:10:05

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: fretless bass (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

I'm trying to think of other musical instruments that sound like farting that I like....hmmm... I guess some percussion instruments can at time sound that way.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 10 2006 23:02:42

sorin popovici

Posts: 427
Joined: Jan. 7 2005
From: Iasi, Romania

RE: fretless bass (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

so farting is bad?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 11 2006 1:32:14

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: fretless bass (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

Dude, don't put words into my mouth!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 11 2006 1:34:42

duende

Posts: 3053
Joined: Dec. 15 2003
From: Sweden

RE: fretless bass (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

Trombone....tuba....me .

hows that for farting instruments?

Ps I like fretless bass, if it´s a good player. don´t know why it´s so much in use in flamenco.
maybe cause you can get a microtone a la Arabe feel.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 11 2006 5:15:53

Ricardo

Posts: 14806
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: fretless bass (in reply to duende)

The reason it is in use so much is because of PdL and Benavent. There are times in the live show where the bass really adds a new dimension, depth and intensity to Paco's show. It does not come off the same on CD or video, that bottom end feeling. But of course there are plenty of times Benavent sounds like he is "noodling" randomly over paco's falsetas. I guess I just never want to hear a bass instrument up front. I feel the same about rhythm guitar, I dont' want to be pulled away from the main melody. That is of course unless there is counter point going on, like Paco's Columbianas. But honestly, even there I prefer the guitar duet version. Like everything else it is personal taste.

Ricardo

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 11 2006 5:46:18

duende

Posts: 3053
Joined: Dec. 15 2003
From: Sweden

RE: fretless bass (in reply to Ricardo)

i know Pdl and Benavent probably used it first, but to stay with it for more than 20 years?!?!
by the way , the bass on the Almoramia record and on Entre dos aguas off of fuente y caudal is a bass with fretts right, doesn´t sound fretless to me.
the fretless came on solo quiero caminar right?

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This is hard stuff!
Don't give up...
And don't make it a race.
Enjoy the ray of sunshine that comes with every new step in knowledge.

RON

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 11 2006 6:58:45

Gummy

Posts: 495
Joined: Nov. 27 2005
From: North Carolina, USA

RE: fretless bass (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

Miguel,
When I was a kid, my older sister played the bassoon. I used to die laughing at the fart sounds! It got to the point where she probably didn't like to practice when I was arond.
Rod

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 11 2006 12:27:09

TGerman

Posts: 138
Joined: Nov. 27 2005

RE: fretless bass (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

I have to agree 100% with Todd. The bass is an awesome instrument especially in capable hands. I'm a big fan of Jaco, Steve Bailey, Victor Wooten, Bill The Buddha, these guys just know how to kill it!!! Here's a picture of Steve with an acoustic, fretless, 6 string, I bet it would sound great accompanying flamenco guitar (in the background).

What I don't like is when the bass is featured prominently, like Ricardo I just want deep in the background. Another thing that I'm not too fond of in flamenco is the flute, violin, piano or any horns, maybe my taste has not matured yey but I prefer my flamenco to sound flamenco.

Todd, you're taking up the cello? Talk about an instrument that REALLY captures the emotions and intensity of the musician!!! That's a fantastic hunk o' wood with strings. Good luck with it!!

Todd

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 11 2006 12:31:20

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: fretless bass (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

Todd G, nice post. It's nice when someone can present a different point of view with diplomacy and respect! :) By the way, that guy is a dead ringer for the guy who played Aragorn in the Lord of the Rings.

I guess I'm not the only one puzzled by the dominance of the fretless bass, though, judging from some of the other posts. Personally, I feel Moog and flamenco guitar go together just as well. I like the sound of a rumbling P-bass or the thump of an acoustic bass much better.

Like Ricardo, I don't like bass in the lead. I think it works best when it carries the groove.

Ah, yes the bassoon--that does have a farting sound. But I like the bassoon, ever since I heard the beautiful Mozart bassoon concerto. Gummy, thanks to your "support", your sister probably never got that far!!

Henrik, this is how flamenco is, full of traditions. It's just that Paco has started a bunch of new traditions and now people want to copy those.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 11 2006 14:48:07

La Contratiempo

Posts: 33
Joined: Feb. 12 2006
From: Denmark

RE: fretless bass (in reply to XXX)

quote:

I never heard an acoustic bass,

Hi, it can sound OK. Joaquín Cortés used it in one of his performances. It playd a falseta by Vicente Amigo. Marina Heredia uses it, it will probably be on her new CD, if it ever comes, at least she used it in a concert I attended last year. And in Denmark there is a group called Flamenco Passión, with guitar, acoustic bass and cajón.
It is an OK sound, not that staccato though.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 13 2006 6:04:08

duende

Posts: 3053
Joined: Dec. 15 2003
From: Sweden

RE: fretless bass (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

quote:

It's just that Paco has started a bunch of new traditions and now people want to copy those.

thats not copying. thats being stuck

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This is hard stuff!
Don't give up...
And don't make it a race.
Enjoy the ray of sunshine that comes with every new step in knowledge.

RON

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 13 2006 8:39:21

gerundino63

Posts: 1743
Joined: Jul. 11 2003
From: The Netherlands

RE: fretless bass (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

In the 80's ther where some guys experimenting with fretless flamenco guitars.
Never heared anymore from it ever.
Do some of you guys heared about it?
Perhaps the experiment failed

Peter

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 13 2006 10:23:25

Ryan002

Posts: 173
Joined: Oct. 18 2005
From: Singapore

RE: fretless bass (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

I think the fretless guitar itself is rapidly losing fans. At least, it is over here where I come from. It's been 4 years since I saw one in use. In all honesty, I can't think of any serious edge fretless guitars can give, other than maybe a few odd SFX and easier slides. But then again, I am n00bish.

Still, a fretless flamenco guitar seems to me to be an example of taking something already hard and making it even harder.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 13 2006 17:58:28

Posts: 320
Joined: Nov. 20 2005
From: manitoba, canada

RE: fretless bass (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

Yeahh
I bought a fretless acoustic 5 string bass
I got it for the challange
Ive also got a 7 string groove tool ...now that sounds good

The cool thing is... my bass playing has improved since I started playing flamenco.
I dont play alot of bass ..but its better than using synths.
I have a special capo to cover the larger neck....really helps for flamenco add ins

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 13 2006 22:23:59