New Classical Guitar Build.

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VAHE

Posts: 82
Joined: Sep. 25 2014
From: ARMENIAN (living in U.S.)

New Classical Guitar Build.

Hello every one .
I am thinking of building a new classical guitar 650mm .
I need your professional input and advise .

1-What kind of wood to use for the side & back - Brazilian , cocobolo or ?
2-What type of fan bracing design is popular among professional classical guitar
players ?
3- what type of sound classical guitar players prefer . bass, mid, or, high trebles ?
4- Spruce top or Cedar ?
Your inputs will be greatly appreciated .

Thank You
Vahe

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Vaheflamenco@Gmail.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 14 2018 23:29:51

Ricardo

Posts: 14806
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: New Classical Guitar Build. (in reply to VAHE)

1. Brazilian is illegal since 1960. Anyone building such guitars should go straight to jail. So use anything else, Indian is the best.
2.any kind of bracing works for classical it seems, even this honeycomb nonsense.
3.this doesn’t matter as classical players play very slow. They make “tone colors” w right position so the eq of the guitar top is arbitrary.
4.again arbitrary as they don’t do golpes so cedar works fine and after finish looks more like cellos and violins of the orchestra so it’s often preferred for looks.

Now if you had said you make flamenco negra here is the answers:
1. Brazilian of course but call it caviuna on the label:
2. Straight parallel sticks, like Conde and other such patterns.
3. Strong mid range to bring the optimal balance and clarity for fast rhythmic playing
4. Spruce... it’s usually punchier, more sweet and percussive. Cedar works for more lyrical style players too, but is less preferred.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 15 2018 16:10:14

rombsix

Posts: 7808
Joined: Jan. 11 2006
From: Beirut, Lebanon

RE: New Classical Guitar Build. (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

1. Brazilian is illegal since 1960. Anyone building such guitars should go straight to jail. So use anything else, Indian is the best.
2.any kind of bracing works for classical it seems, even this honeycomb nonsense.
3.this doesn’t matter as classical players play very slow. They make “tone colors” w right position so the eq of the guitar top is arbitrary.
4.again arbitrary as they don’t do golpes so cedar works fine and after finish looks more like cellos and violins of the orchestra so it’s often preferred for looks.

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Ramzi

http://www.youtube.com/rombsix

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 15 2018 16:13:47

kitarist

Posts: 1715
Joined: Dec. 4 2012

RE: New Classical Guitar Build. (in reply to rombsix)

Hehe what happened here?

The two sides of Ricardo..

Both responses are entertaining/informative, so happy Ramzi caught the first one for posterity

EDIT: OK, it's a fast moving target... this above not relevant anymore..

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Konstantin

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 15 2018 17:02:32

RobF

Posts: 1611
Joined: Aug. 24 2017

RE: New Classical Guitar Build. (in reply to VAHE)

I think Ricardo pretty well hit the nail on the head and has covered most of the important points.

While Ricardo is correct w.r.t. the bracing, I feel I should caution that if you use Torres as your basis you shouldn’t tell anyone. If you do tell them, there is the danger they will look at you like you’re “yesterday’s man”, and you can’t charge as much. Unless, of course, you make some stupid looking oversized rosette covered in chequerboards, shields, meandering patterns and the like, in which case you can call it a bench copy and charge more. If you use one of his more understated rosettes as inspiration people will insist on telling you it’s a Hauser, in which case you might as well call it a Hauser copy and charge more.

Any other fan bracing, with the exception of patterns using treble bars, can properly be called Santos, and you can charge more. Treble bars allow you to claim the pattern as your own invention, as long as you also state that all other makers using them don’t really know what they’re doing. In which case you can charge more.

But seriously, I have a feeling if you take one of your Negras, use the fan bracing pattern you already have in your shop, the one with closing bars, adjust the bridge design to give it a classical string height at the saddle and adjust the neck angle and fingerboard thickness to get a classical action at the 12th fret you probably will be fine.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 15 2018 17:58:55

VAHE

Posts: 82
Joined: Sep. 25 2014
From: ARMENIAN (living in U.S.)

RE: New Classical Guitar Build. (in reply to Ricardo)

Thank you Ricardo for the info.

Brazilian wood being sold on ebay.
I have a customer that wants to provide the wood . is that illegal ?
What is the reason to call it caviuna ?

Thanks

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Vaheflamenco@Gmail.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 15 2018 18:01:59

VAHE

Posts: 82
Joined: Sep. 25 2014
From: ARMENIAN (living in U.S.)

RE: New Classical Guitar Build. (in reply to RobF)

Thank you for the info. RobF

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https://www.instagram.com/vahe_flamenco_guitars/
Vaheflamenco@Gmail.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 15 2018 18:06:04

RobF

Posts: 1611
Joined: Aug. 24 2017

RE: New Classical Guitar Build. (in reply to VAHE)

I think Ricardo is joking about the Caviuna.

If your customer has CITES documentation for his wood I don’t think there would be any legal issues building with it. But the guitar may be nearly impossible to export to the EU as the buyer may not be able to get an import permit for it.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 15 2018 18:16:10

VAHE

Posts: 82
Joined: Sep. 25 2014
From: ARMENIAN (living in U.S.)

RE: New Classical Guitar Build. (in reply to RobF)

Thank you .

_____________________________

https://www.instagram.com/vahe_flamenco_guitars/
Vaheflamenco@Gmail.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 15 2018 18:28:56

VAHE

Posts: 82
Joined: Sep. 25 2014

[Deleted]

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Sep. 15 2018 18:40:59

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 15 2018 18:40:28

VAHE

Posts: 82
Joined: Sep. 25 2014

[Deleted]

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Sep. 15 2018 18:45:25

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 15 2018 18:44:50

RobF

Posts: 1611
Joined: Aug. 24 2017

RE: New Classical Guitar Build. (in reply to VAHE)

I think you’ll make him a fine guitar.

Maybe ask him to let you have a look online at the rosewood before he buys it, just to make sure you are comfortable building with the set he’s selected.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 15 2018 18:45:20

constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1676
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: New Classical Guitar Build. (in reply to VAHE)

In my experience, if you take what works for your flamenco model and brace the soundboard more heavily, this will tend towards what classical guitarists want. Heavier bracing could mean more braces or larger braces, or a thicker top. Everyone wants all the ranges to be strong, don't they? Classical playing tends to require more sustain. Denser woods in the back and sides and neck can lead to more sustain. (Of course, you could get too much sustain.)

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I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 15 2018 19:06:28

VAHE

Posts: 82
Joined: Sep. 25 2014
From: ARMENIAN (living in U.S.)

RE: New Classical Guitar Build. (in reply to RobF)

Here is a link .
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10212051906002953&set=pcb.10212051916323211&type=3

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Vaheflamenco@Gmail.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 15 2018 19:06:41

VAHE

Posts: 82
Joined: Sep. 25 2014
From: ARMENIAN (living in U.S.)

RE: New Classical Guitar Build. (in reply to constructordeguitarras)

Thank you .

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https://www.instagram.com/vahe_flamenco_guitars/
Vaheflamenco@Gmail.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 15 2018 19:09:06

Richard Jernigan

Posts: 3430
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA

RE: New Classical Guitar Build. (in reply to RobF)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RobF

Any other fan bracing, with the exception of patterns using treble bars, can properly be called Santos, and you can charge more. Treble bars allow you to claim the pattern as your own invention, as long as you also state that all other makers using them don’t really know what they’re doing. In which case you can charge more.

Of course you are joking, but here's what Daniel Friedrich says about Santos bracing:

"We see reappear in that country [Spain] an old idea of which I have spoken earlier, which led to asymmetry in the Spanish style, “fan” braced soundboard, an essential part of the sound of the instrument. In 1903, it was the Madrilenian luthier Santos Hernandez who set the middle bar at an angle to enlarge the vibrating part of the soundboard on the side of the bass strings and shorten it on the side of the treble strings (Fig.20).

Santos by rnjernigan, on Flickr

RNJ

Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 15 2018 22:06:32

RobF

Posts: 1611
Joined: Aug. 24 2017

RE: New Classical Guitar Build. (in reply to Richard Jernigan)

I think Friedrich was gently calling out the same maker I was poking fun at, who appropriated the concept into what he referred to as a “cross bar” and went on to say all others using the concept were his imitators, none of whom actually grasped the theory.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 15 2018 23:01:38