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Roasted spruce
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estebanana
Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
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 RE: Roasted spruce (in reply to JasonM)
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The PM I received on the subject at hand. This came with an introduction and a short section that expressed exasperation with chat rooms in which participants neglect to fact check or cross reference posts on subjects they are not experts on.
Here you go:
Stephen I saw your postings about Torifried wood.
Again this is why I say that Internet boards are such a mixed bag, they can be a source of
information or the vehicles of fake news or in this case fake science , myth perpetuation.
I spend a lot of time debunking why certain strings are better than others and why it makes no
sense to spend more money on one string type vs another. I usually sum up my discussion with"
It's a matter of personal taste" meaning if you think it is better then it must be. Logic and reasoning
have little to do with it.
This whole discussion of pectin removal is incredibly stupid.
1. Baking off Pectin? Pectin is a carbohydrate and a polysaccharide a long chain sugar much like
starch. It is not like a myriad of small molecules that are volatile. You cannot drive off a large
molecule like that through cell walls by heating and volatilizing it.
2. Permeability of large molecules in or out of cells. Even if the wood cells are dead and and
somewhat porous, those points of porosity are incredibly small.In the cell biology business we do
what's called a cell permeability test, if cells take up the dye methylene blue from the surrounding
area and the cell interior turns blue it means the cell cannot control intake or export of small
molecules. But if you try that with Blue dextran a polysaccharide much like pectin it doesn't
penetrate unless the cell wall is ruptured , because the dextran is so much bigger. It's the difference
of getting sand through a colander and getting golf balls through a colander.
3. Permeation into a multilayer strata: Even if Nagavary were right about leaching out minerals in
the logs, how long would it take to penetrate into the core of a billet? For those who have tried
dying woods How long would it take to get dye to penetrate 1 inch into a four inch thick billet? How
long does it take for soy to penetrate to the core of a rump roast. Through the wonders of calculus
you would approach the limit ( The core ) as you reach infinity. The other example is case hardened
lumber.
4. Tory fried wood probably effects strength and responsiveness due to driving water and further
distorting the structure of the cells. There is a phenomena called bound water and free water: Free
water the water in an environment acting as an envrionment, solvent is readily volatilized , Bound
water is water that is associated with proteins , carbohydrates and salt comlpexes as part of a
larger molecular complex. Given enough energy that water can driven off but in the process alters
those chemical complexes.That's why jerky can never be reconstituted into prime rib.
5. Ask Tom if he actually measured the pectin content in his experiments with Nagyvariation. How
does he know he drove off pectin and not something else? If he insists it really is Pectin, ask him
how to assay Pectin. It's not exactly a cakewalk you can do in your kitchen.
_____________________________
https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Sep. 4 2018 1:05:05
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RobF
Posts: 1611
Joined: Aug. 24 2017
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RE: Roasted spruce (in reply to constructordeguitarras)
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I’m pretty sure I read somewhere on the internet that with the judicious use of a brad nailer, a staple gun and a few carriage bolts, there’s no real need for glue, whatsoever. The only reason I’m still using it is because I don’t have a proper brad nailer.... 
But seriously, I think a flamenco Blanca made with torrefied wood would look pretty cool, kind of a natural old gold. It’s intriguing, so I asked a supplier for a quote on a B&S set of torrefied Nootka Cypress today. He said people haven’t reported any issues with bending torrefied sides, but I’d get an extra set, just in case.
He also said that Nootka Cypress responds well to the process. I guess I’ll find out what he means by that if I get some. I’ve used it in its natural state before and the guitar turned out great. I think the Blanca that Anders made for Simon uses Nootka (aka Alaskan Yellow Cedar or Canadian Cypress).
But my interest in it is mainly cosmetic, I’m not expecting any sonic miracles or anything. If I do get a set, I’ll post my impressions.
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Sep. 4 2018 22:46:50
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Ruphus
Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
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RE: Roasted spruce (in reply to JasonM)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JasonM
Watched the vid but I dont speak a da German.
That is why I translated the basic context. So one can have an idea in advance.
Getting oneself just heated wood wouldn´t already guarantee improvement on the source material.
Crucial being that each kind of wood having been treated to the individual species´ optimal specs.
Meaning in accordance to data determined through systematic and scientific evaluation.
In the study that I linked to such evaluation was done and yielded results as well as unexpected choices among local species, that can either be taken advantage of or ignored.
That is everyone´s own choice.
I have seen so many examples of how people rejecting from the get go what they don´t know, that it appears just common.
From ordinary and outright blatantly obvious things in the guitar world like fine tuners, fine tuning, tempered tuning to general items like credit cards, PCs, digital photography, 96 kHz audio or currently AI and electric motor bikes, just to name a few.
Always have their been nihilism of traditional or pseudo scientific kinds, and usually then followed by practical reasoning in the long run, even if delayed.
BTW: "Lame" e-bikes outperformed combustion vehicles in the moto cross world already when it was still ugly proto boxes in frames, and the styled Lightning bike put all super bikes to shame by 20 seconds lead in the race.
Makes me interested once there be one with maybe just ~ 130 hp at ~150 kg wet weight. Silent power with hundreds of Nm right there at low turns already; yummy.
As technically is however, it takes caution at the end of curves and with slowing down on slippery / wet bitumen.
Even reluctant Mercedes just introduced their e-SUV and hear, hear: Harely Davidson their e-version.
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Sep. 5 2018 2:48:44
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