RE: Several things I am curious about the guitar.

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estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Several things I am curious abou... (in reply to Piwin)

Yes, absolutely too strong. I'm sorry, it was presumptuous of me. After all saddles really are an equestrian bit of kit and what would singers and dancers know from dressage.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 4 2018 5:33:16

constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1675
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: Several things I am curious abou... (in reply to Richard Jernigan)

quote:

Julian Bream eventually had Hauser II replace the back of the famous Romanillos #501, which kept cracking. The guitar was French polished on the outside, but untreated on the inside. He didn't ask Romanillos to do it because Hauser had a better stock of seasoned Brazilian rosewood. If I remember correctly, the original back came for a dining table Romanillos came across at an estate auction. It was hard to get guitar wood in England in the 1970s.

Brazilian rosewood is more prone to cracking than Indian rosewood.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 4 2018 14:50:04

Echi

Posts: 1132
Joined: Jan. 11 2013

RE: Several things I am curious abou... (in reply to estebanana)

Kevin Aram wrote a nice report about Bream’s Romanillos on an American Lutherie.
A Lot of things happened to that guitar, which btw was hardly schellacked when taken by Bream.
If I remember correctly the back was replaced at least twice and the fan bracing was replaced as well as the original struts were too flat and after some years the bridge pulled up the top too much.
It seems that Bream liked more the feeling given to the right hand by the taller struts than the original ones.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 4 2018 21:30:28

sartorius

Posts: 206
Joined: Mar. 7 2017

RE: Several things I am curious abou... (in reply to estebanana)

Guitar making is not a science and will never be because there are just too many things or parameters tthat play such an important part, some of which are just not measurable scientifically. That's why it is an art. Try to explain Art with science(s)...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 12 2018 9:06:00

Tom Blackshear

Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008

RE: Several things I am curious abou... (in reply to sartorius)

quote:

Try to explain Art with science(s)...

Allan Carruth will probably tell you that both are compatible as science indicates and establishes a code of balance with art. It sets certain perimeters in dealing with where to start and stop the process artistically.

Most of my process is essentially done with intuition and careful adjustment based on human interaction with the wood but I allow science to calibrate certain facets on movement toward not going over the mark I have set for good tone.

This is done with several things in mind but the most important is to judge what age does to the tone. And this knowledge basically tells you where to stop the fine tuning and allow age to take over. Science indicates certain areas to be regulated to aid the artistic process.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 12 2018 10:39:49

Echi

Posts: 1132
Joined: Jan. 11 2013

RE: Several things I am curious abou... (in reply to estebanana)

People like Santos Hernandez, Manuel Reyes, Miguel Rodriguez or Josè Romanillos were not learned people but their guitars still speak on their behalf.
Other fellows like Dammann or Friederich obtained top results with a more te technical approach and that’s good as well.
Whatever the way, the result is the only thing that matters.

Having said this, I really appreciate the good work of people like Alan Carruth or Trevor Gore.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 12 2018 16:01:16

Ricardo

Posts: 14801
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Several things I am curious abou... (in reply to sartorius)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sartorius

Guitar making is not a science and will never be because there are just too many things or parameters tthat play such an important part, some of which are just not measurable scientifically. That's why it is an art. Try to explain Art with science(s)...

Well, at least in music, I have discovered that both subjective critic and praise of certain music can be traced back to some technical details. Examples such as swing, phrasing, tone, dynamics etc all are technical and when studied in detail, can be reproduced or altered to taste.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 12 2018 16:17:28

Richard Jernigan

Posts: 3430
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA

RE: Several things I am curious abou... (in reply to Ricardo)

Carruth himself says that measurement can distinguish good guitars from bad guitars, but it can not distinguish good guitars from great guitars. Maybe the art lies in that territory between good and great.

A long engineering career and spending a $few hundred million of the taxpayers’ money teaches that careful experiment and comprehensive testing should precede devoting a lot of time or money to something. The great luthiers had a fair amount of experience in the process of becoming great. Some, though not all, profited from good or even great teachers.

RNJ

Yes, it’s a boring post, but I’m sitting in the airport waiting for a delayed flight.....

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 12 2018 17:41:34

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Several things I am curious abou... (in reply to estebanana)

The difference between a famous maker and a non famous maker is a very famous guitarist playing the makers guitars.

The difference between a good guitar and great guitar is luck and persistent practice. Steady development of one model over time usually results in mostly good guitars, the occasional unusually great guitar and the occasional dud.

The science comes in to regulate the consistent practice. And to keep track of where the maker has been.

Science or empirical analysis works because it track of data and gives it context for the maker to understand how to change the building process. The same things can be done by trial and error, but you would never know what they mean or why they work.

The zone system in photography is more fit as an analogy to science in guitar making. You are trying to make a working way to reliably changing one aspect of the sound, or 'exposure' - the science gives quantified information, how many grams should the bridge wiegh for good performance in a certain context. That's what defines the 'zone' or sweetspot. Once a maker gets the zones understood almost all the guitars are good.

What makes them great aside from say Julian Bream's blessings......???

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 13 2018 1:59:17