RE: Conde or Romero pricing

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zendalex

Posts: 137
Joined: Sep. 4 2010
From: New York area

RE: Conde or Romero pricing (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo

First of all “dry” means absence of water, and in recording studios it means very short or non existent reverb tail, so hard to say what folks mean regarding guitars alone.

I mean something different by "dry" (yes I know other conotations which you mentioned). Here I guess I mean the sound of wood itself, (maple or spruce in this case), the sound that is not shaped in any way by the varnish. I actually cant help but imagine a ping pong ball bouncing off of the table. :))

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 1 2018 14:29:45

Ricardo

Posts: 14799
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Conde or Romero pricing (in reply to zendalex)

Pics of chusco’s guitar vs the Canin’s here

http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=180184&appid=&p=&mpage=1&key=chuscales&tmode=&smode=&s=#180184

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 1 2018 14:37:34

Morante

Posts: 2179
Joined: Nov. 21 2010

RE: Conde or Romero pricing (in reply to zendalex)

Condes (Madrid or Valencia) are the choice of professionals because they sound good with microphones and in recording studios. This is due to their lack of harmonics (or quality of sound) which makes them easier to mic up.

I have experienced this in the studio with Gerundino, Reyes and Conde. The Conde, which sounded worst live, was chosen because it was easier to record.

Aficionados who want a good live sound should avoid Condes.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 1 2018 14:43:10

sartorius

Posts: 206
Joined: Mar. 7 2017

RE: Conde or Romero pricing (in reply to Morante)

When I first used my Romero for practice with a couple of well-seasoned dancers in a very big hall they both came to me saying how amazed they were by the live sound it produces.

Morante: you're right, when I am in my recording studio the Romero goes back in its case and the Caviuna Carrillo goes out because of its Conde-like sound. Every great player (Vicente etc.) uses a guitar for studio recording that is not the one he plays on stage with for the very reasons you mentioned.

Quite a few professionals in Madrid are currently using Romeros in live shows around the city.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 1 2018 15:13:43

Echi

Posts: 1132
Joined: Jan. 11 2013

RE: Conde or Romero pricing (in reply to zendalex)

quote:

Condes (Madrid or Valencia) are the choice of professionals because they sound good with microphones and in recording studios.

And also for their optimal pulsacion and carachteristic tone.

The thing with Conde, as said many many times, is that there are 3 Conde shops and each of them outsource their guitars.
The previous generation did the same (at least) for the last 35 years.
This means that many hands have been involved and you can get either a bargain or a bad instrument for the same money.

In this sense, not all the Condes are the same: there are years better than others and shops better than others in certain years. You can easily spot on the best years/shops as these guitars are sold for the double.

I for one would buy a good old Conde without hesitation: on the other side I cannot stand to spend good money for the more recent ones.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 1 2018 17:14:21

Posts: 524
Joined: Jun. 15 2006

RE: Conde or Romero pricing (in reply to Morante)

in my xperience, old Condes (70s & 80s) are really really good. Very different than the newer ones either by felipe or Mariano or when they were together.

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http://www.youtube.com/user/Tsolakk

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 1 2018 22:03:33

JasonM

Posts: 2054
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: Conde or Romero pricing (in reply to sartorius)

Every Conde and Reyes wishes it had cajones like Gerundino!

I don’t think the recording guitar statement is true. Vicente recorded a lot with a Reyes for example and many others record with their stage guitar. But most play Condes anyway!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 2 2018 1:39:49

sartorius

Posts: 206
Joined: Mar. 7 2017

RE: Conde or Romero pricing (in reply to JasonM)

Paco was known to record with Devoe, Tomatito with Ramirez (previous post on the subject), Sanlucar with Peña and Vicente with Navarro.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 2 2018 6:37:23

Echi

Posts: 1132
Joined: Jan. 11 2013

RE: Conde or Romero pricing (in reply to zendalex)

The best Gerundinas are even better than Reyes but he wasn’t a consistent maker at all and nowadays it’s very hard to find good Gerundinas around.
We often complain about Conde but other makers, as Gerundino in his last years, used to outsource his guitas as well.
Reyes was much more consistent and never outsourced his guitars. What you pay for, you get.
I consider a good Conde in the same league though.
Believe me or not, I have a (repaired and in a bad shape) ‘74 Jose Lopez Bellido which ilI find in the same league of a Reyes.

quote:

Paco was known to record with Devoe, Tomatito with Ramirez (previous post on the subject), Sanlucar with Peña and Vicente with Navarro

Paco had 50 years of career: throughout the years many things changed and many guitars passed through his hands. He recorded with Conde as with DeVoe, Carrillo etc. You may find pictures of him with a Montero Aguilera or a Jose’ Fernandez but at the end of the day we all know his guitar was a Faustino Conde.
In the same way, Tomatito must be associated with Conde for his work of accompainement and lwith Reyes for the last part of his career. He often declared his favourite guitar is a Gerundino though and in occasions he has been seen playing different guitars (Bellido, Barba ecc) as he is almost a collector.
In a general sense, Vicente seems to favour cedar topped guitars for the recordings (De Voe in a couple of albums, more recently Graciliano Perez). He recorded his last album with his signature guitars as Paco and Tomatito did previously.
His last album

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 2 2018 6:55:19

zendalex

Posts: 137
Joined: Sep. 4 2010
From: New York area

RE: Conde or Romero pricing (in reply to Echi)

It is interesting that Gerundino got mentioned here. In the Luthier music shop that I was trying out few pricy guitars Gerundino was for sale as well. It was a vintage negra from the 70s (I believe) but in perferct (as new condition). I tried it and it was very loud and very meaty/bassy guitar, way more bassy than the Mariano Conde negra that I tried. The guy sells Gerundino for around 9k (maybe he can go further down) - I am curious how much really it should cost? The unspecified model of Mariano is being sold for around 11k, 2010 Conde blanca from Felippe V shop is 8k, as well as the top model of Sanchis Carpio (also for 8k).

Overall I feel the mark-up in that shop is a few k for each of the guitars.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 2 2018 20:43:26

JasonM

Posts: 2054
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: Conde or Romero pricing (in reply to zendalex)

Luthier music’s prices are high, maybe to pay the rent In manhattan?

I’ve only played one Gerundino Blanca - was kind of poking at Morente, but I agree, it was very meaty and bold sounding. It was very early on in my playing before I knew more about guitars.

I think Vicente only recorded two tracks with the Navarro, the ones he has videos of playing in the garden. The rumba is unmistakable Reyes. I think all these guys cycle around with guitars like Echi said but they have their stage sound reputation to uphold.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 2 2018 21:14:41

tri7/5

Posts: 570
Joined: May 5 2012

RE: Conde or Romero pricing (in reply to JasonM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JasonM

Luthier music’s prices are high, maybe to pay the rent In manhattan?

To say the least, they are about as bad as GSI and Classical Guitars International.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 2 2018 22:48:06

Posts: 524
Joined: Jun. 15 2006

RE: Conde or Romero pricing (in reply to JasonM)

Alex, if you are referring to the cedar top Indian back gerundino, it is 1991. It used to be my guitar years ago. The $8k to $9k is a fair price for that guitat in my opinion. He also had one odd gerundino Blanca dated 1969 or 1970. It was an ok guitat but not like a powerful one.

My Conde 1981 negra is much more powerful than that 1991 gerundino negra.

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TK
http://www.youtube.com/user/Tsolakk

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 3 2018 5:20:45

Posts: 524
Joined: Jun. 15 2006

RE: Conde or Romero pricing (in reply to zendalex)

Here is the sound of the gerundino negra that you tried there
https://youtu.be/DWSy3TT6DA0

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 3 2018 5:24:35

zendalex

Posts: 137
Joined: Sep. 4 2010
From: New York area

RE: Conde or Romero pricing (in reply to tk)

Hi tk,
Wow, how come your guitar ended in the luthiers shop?
Out of curiousity, how much did the guy pay you for it?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 3 2018 14:05:11

Posts: 524
Joined: Jun. 15 2006

RE: Conde or Romero pricing (in reply to zendalex)

There was a trade involved as well so it was not precise.

More importantly, what he is asking for a good gerundino is not out of line.

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TK
http://www.youtube.com/user/Tsolakk

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 3 2018 17:36:51

sartorius

Posts: 206
Joined: Mar. 7 2017

RE: Conde or Romero pricing (in reply to zendalex)

I saw Romero building a Cedar top guitar in his shop one day but this remains a rarity. I've never tried one, and that was a custom order. In the same line the best Carrillo Blanca I've ever seen and played happened to be a Cedar top. Less brilliant but so deep and mysterious...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 5 2018 17:05:55

Echi

Posts: 1132
Joined: Jan. 11 2013

RE: Conde or Romero pricing (in reply to zendalex)

I used to have a couple of Gerundino guitars: a guitar made with cedar and rosewood and a spruce and cypress.
The 2 guitars shared a lot in terms of tone but the cedar topped was softer, warmer and all in all less projecting.
I for one preferred the spruce topped guitar.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 5 2018 23:46:40