Gibson

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Gibson

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Morante

Posts: 2178
Joined: Nov. 21 2010

Gibson

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-05-01/gibson-files-for-bankruptcy-with-deal-to-renew-guitar-business

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 1 2018 16:30:36

Mark2

Posts: 1868
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco

RE: Gibson (in reply to Morante)

I’ve wanted a lefty 175 for years but no......ok how about a herb Ellis?? Nope. Maybe you can find a used one. Of course for 8-10k I could get an L5. But for that kind of dough one could purchase an incredible hand made guitar. I bought an Eastman 175 knockoff for 800.00 thinking I’d sell it if a Gibson came along. But I was playing it a few weeks ago and it felt pretty good. If I could walk into a store and play a few 175’s I might be inclined to drop 4K for one if it played better than the knockoff. But Gibson has decided that is not an option. Fark ‘em.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 1 2018 18:48:20

tri7/5

Posts: 570
Joined: May 5 2012

RE: Gibson (in reply to Morante)

This has been coming for a while now. Guitar Center will be next. They over priced, over grew, and stopped catering to their core players with outrageous guitars that no one wanted.

They'll re-org and be back.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 1 2018 21:17:09

Morante

Posts: 2178
Joined: Nov. 21 2010

RE: Gibson (in reply to Mark2)

I have played several 175s and have owned an Epiphone copy. I was not impressed by any of them. The Epiphone was of the same playability and with similar quality control. With a change to Gibson pickups, it would be hard to tell the difference. Though a friend has a Herb Ellis, which is really nice.

Another jazz guitarist here plays an Ibanez 335 copy, which has little to lose against a Gibson. Another plays a wonderful George Benson Ibanez, the guitar which I would buy if I needed one.

Gibson never learned from the court cases over the copies by Ibanez, Yamaha and even Aria. Guitarrras of the same quality at a fraction of the price.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 1 2018 23:17:17

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Gibson (in reply to Morante)

Yeah, I never understood paying that price for essentially a factory guitar.....

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 1 2018 23:32:42

Mark2

Posts: 1868
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco

RE: Gibson (in reply to tri7/5)

Yeah once in a while I go into guitar center in sf. They have 500 guitars three of which are lefties. 10 minutes later I walk out having bought nothing. Didn’t used to be that way. I used to buy nylon strings ten sets at a time for five bucks a set. No more discount=no more purchases. Really too bad. I heard mitt Romney and Bain capital bought them then borrowed tons of money in their name, making their long term survival dubious. Don’t know if that is fact though.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 2 2018 0:33:01

Mark2

Posts: 1868
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco

RE: Gibson (in reply to Morante)

That’s interesting. I did see a lefty herb Ellis on eBay in England and was tempted. Hard to pay over three thousand for a guitar sight unseen with no return allowed. I had to pass.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Morante

I have played several 175s and have owned an Epiphone copy. I was not impressed by any of them. The Epiphone was of the same playability and with similar quality control. With a change to Gibson pickups, it would be hard to tell the difference. Though a friend has a Herb Ellis, which is really nice.

Another jazz guitarist here plays an Ibanez 335 copy, which has little to lose against a Gibson. Another plays a wonderful George Benson Ibanez, the guitar which I would buy if I needed one.

Gibson never learned from the court cases over the copies by Ibanez, Yamaha and even Aria. Guitarrras of the same quality at a fraction of the price.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 2 2018 0:36:11

Richard Jernigan

Posts: 3430
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA

RE: Gibson (in reply to Mark2)

I bought a used SG Special around 1973 for $150. I figured it was either stolen, or else the guy's story about needing to pay the rent was approximately true. I checked the ads and the bulletin boards for a while, but never saw anything about it being stolen.

I never got around to learning to play electric. A couple of years later I gave the Gibson to my son when he turned 16. He's a natural, one of those people who can hear something once and play it back note perfect--since he was four years old.

It took him about 2 1/2 months to get where he could play that SG Special quite respectably. He has continued to improve.

A few months ago we were talking about guitars. He has more than one. They are all electric, except one nylon string, which I have never seen or heard. He said that some time in the last few years he had traded in the Gibson on some special model of Strat. Said they gave him $1500 for it. Or was it $2000? I forget....

RNJ

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 2 2018 1:36:10

Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Gibson (in reply to Richard Jernigan)

quote:

I bought a used SG Special around 1973 for $150

My 1970 Gibson SG Deluxe is worth about $1000 now, but it was nothing that special (I had it overhauled by Chas Chandler) and I really wish I had bought a 60s Strat at the time. They were cheap enough then.

My customised 335 tribute copy with Dirty Fingers at the bridge and a P94 is much nicer.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 2 2018 7:25:44

Morante

Posts: 2178
Joined: Nov. 21 2010

RE: Gibson (in reply to Leñador)

I wonder if Martin are on the same road. I wanted to buy a small bodied Martin and managed to find 4 in Madrid.

All 4 had major construcion problems, were badly set up and sounded poor. At 4,000 euros, I left without a guitar.

Perhaps you have to be in good old USA to buy a good one

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 2 2018 15:10:13

Harry

Posts: 390
Joined: Jun. 24 2010
From: Montreal, Canada

RE: Gibson (in reply to Morante)

I have a Lucille and used to have a Les Paul that I sold. Both guitars are incredible, but both are from the 90s. I have heard Gibson's quality control problems are more recent. I compared a 1990 Les Paul to a 2000s and there was no comparison. The set up, finish, sound and feel was not comparable at all. Instruments that are in their price ranges should be of excellent quality. I am not sure why the CEO is still there (as far as I know). From what I hear he is a big part of the problem. Shouldn't this be enough for him to just step down?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 2 2018 15:43:33

Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Gibson (in reply to Harry)

My first part-time job as a teenager was in a guitar shop and the lower end Gibsons of the mid-1970s were terrible, especially the bare slabs of SG and LP-shaped "studio" styles. None were setup.

I changed the strings, adjusted the bridge and saddle etc. but they wouldn't let me touch the truss rod, frets or nut, of course.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 2 2018 16:37:58

Mark2

Posts: 1868
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco

RE: Gibson (in reply to Leñador)

Most I’ve paid for an electric was a bit under 3k for a prs. It was worth every dime. I’ve got strats and had a les Paul custom but the prs is a way better instrument. Plays better and stays in tune better.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leñador

Yeah, I never understood paying that price for essentially a factory guitar.....

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 2 2018 17:53:18

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Gibson (in reply to Morante)

quote:

Most I’ve paid for an electric was a bit under 3k for a prs. It was worth every dime. I’ve got strats and had a les Paul custom but the prs is a way better instrument. Plays better and stays in tune better.

I’m with you, if I buy another electric it’d be a PRS. Dollar to dollar a waaaay better product than Gibson. Every one I’ve ever played was smooth like butter and sounded great.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 2 2018 19:48:45

JasonM

Posts: 2052
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: Gibson (in reply to Leñador)

I concur on the PRS. Don't usually hear anything bad about their SE line made in Korea.

I thought guitar center made their prices comparable to online retailers like Sweetwater. Guitar center doesn't seem to carry anything decent anymore. Mostly crap.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 2 2018 20:33:34

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Gibson (in reply to Morante)

Gibson has skated on a reputation that was made before 1960, and has done precious little since then. They have not been relevant for my entire life, decades. I would not miss them.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 3 2018 0:52:11

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Gibson (in reply to Morante)

quote:

Gibson has skated on a reputation that was made before 1960, and has done precious little since then. They have not been relevant for my entire life, decades. I would not miss them.

Some would call this blasphemy but I agree. I've played very few new(er) Gibsons that I thought were worth anywhere near their dollar. I'd put fender on that same plate. I played a 1970 something strat once that was amazing but every new one I've played was sub par to even Ibanez.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 3 2018 1:24:17

SephardRick

Posts: 358
Joined: Apr. 11 2014

RE: Gibson (in reply to Morante)

I agree with the post 1950's Gibson production peak of musical quality. You saw it in the vacuum tube industry too. Where in the 60's the tooling was top notch, the quality of materials declined.

Then currently, you see the Historic models, like the Mark Knophler 1958 Les Paul Standard selling for $5100; The aged and signed MK model for $11.000. How can they justify those prices, when the Les Paul Standard sell for $3000? Profit margins like that kill off their consumer base. Also, the quality of their competition is just as good, if not better. Your 5 and 11 grand can buy an all around better hand made guitar IMHO. My guess is the volume sales of Epiphone line is the only thing keeping Gibson afloat.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 3 2018 15:35:17

Morante

Posts: 2178
Joined: Nov. 21 2010

RE: Gibson (in reply to SephardRick)

In Cádiz we have a lone luthier who is working on 2 orders for archtops. But he is scraping out the domed top from a solid piece of wood, in the style of D´Aquisito. The projected price is less than a plywood 175.

Support the real luthiers; if you buy a "real handmade Stratocaster by master Krause" it will cost you a fortune and will sound like a good Squier.

My wife has a primo in Algodonales who makes electric guitars to your design. They are top class, better than any Gibson or Fender, and cheaper.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 3 2018 16:01:21

etta

Posts: 341
Joined: Jan. 20 2010

RE: Gibson (in reply to Morante)

So Gibson goes belly up? What else is new, and how many times has this happened? Once they get it right again the corporation will let it slide again. I have several musician friends who have worked at Gibson in Nashville. They tell horror stories about poor workmanship, lack of quality control, and lack of executive/corporate support for turning out first class products. This is sad because the company has the know how and some good craftsmen, but I suppose it is again profit over quality plus bad corporate decisions. The Asian imports hurt all the domestic builders but instead of holding to their quality, which ultimately is what sells, they cut corners for short term profits, and the downward spiral starts all over.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 3 2018 16:12:45

Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010

RE: Gibson (in reply to Morante)

One of the two guitars that I badly regret to have not snatched was a Gibson 12 stringer.
It was offered to me in the mid eighties for ridiculously little (a studio owner wanted to get rid of utilities), and due to its mint condition I would assume it to have been made in the seventies at the latest. It was stellar to say the least. Sounding and playing as perfectly as it gets, and tremendously musically inspiring.

It was a diva, and the leather covered suitcase alone was so noble that now it would likely cost you about as much like a fine guitar. Today the content will probably hardly come in for less than ~ 12 grands.

Due to that experience, seeing the brand going down is saddening to me. I always considered them ahead of Fender.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 4 2018 9:23:34

El Burdo

Posts: 632
Joined: Sep. 8 2011

RE: Gibson (in reply to Morante)

This is my factory 'second' 335 - I think due to dodgy spray job causing the lacquer to sort of 'roll' off at times. I think it's a 68/72 hybrid as it seems to have been hanging about in the factory - genuine orange label but volute - but the point is, it's a superb and beautiful instrument. Not an international supermodel but a beautiful thing. Seymour Duncans top and bottom. Rio fingerboard.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 4 2018 11:55:38

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Gibson (in reply to Morante)

When I was in high school in the 70's we knew Gibson was irrelevant. If you could get a Gibson from pre 1975 that was good, otherwise Ibanez.

Lloyd Loar died a long time ago. And Gibson only innovated once after that. The development of the Les Paul was the last thing Gibson did. The SG and Explorer etc were all like 1950's fighter jets or cars wîth fins. The 335 is important, the SG facilitated Black Sabbath and ACDC...The L-5 was Loar. They've done zilch since about 1958.

From my perspective the great thing about Gibsons is that the headstocks snap off. Repair work money.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 4 2018 12:30:04

Ricardo

Posts: 14797
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Gibson (in reply to estebanana)

quote:

The development of the Les Paul was the last thing Gibson did. The SG and Explorer etc were all like 1950's fighter jets or cars wîth fins.

Flying V was cool too... and Explorer came back in 80’s thanks to Van Halen scorpions and Metallica. I for one always loved the explorer head/ neck that Van Halen used for his Kramer...

This was a while ago when Gibson first filed

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 4 2018 14:16:07

Morante

Posts: 2178
Joined: Nov. 21 2010

RE: Gibson (in reply to estebanana)

People buy Gibson, Fender, Conde nowadays because they think they have good resale. And they are right, because the majority who will buy second hand do not know how to choose and so buy something famous to cover up their lack of knowledge.

The really good Gibsons, Fenders and Condes etc are now for collectors at silly prices, unless you are lucky enough to still have one.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 4 2018 15:53:38

Echi

Posts: 1131
Joined: Jan. 11 2013

RE: Gibson (in reply to Morante)

You may find on the tube a Gibson factory tour. You will see that it’s a huge factory for the output of nowadays.
The aggressive marketing policy of Ibanez was the beginning of the end and the massive Chinese production for cheap money was the cherry on the cake.
Nowadays the Gibson customers would play a PRS.
Old Gibson are a different matter though: great guitars.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 4 2018 17:15:53

El Burdo

Posts: 632
Joined: Sep. 8 2011

RE: Gibson (in reply to Ricardo)

I thought I recognised that guy (Beato). His son is capable of stunning absolute and relative pitch id-ing. Don't know where that's going to lead him but it is truly jaw dropping as a skill. This is just one of a series of his development.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 4 2018 22:26:32

Ricardo

Posts: 14797
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Gibson (in reply to El Burdo)

quote:

ORIGINAL: El Burdo

I thought I recognised that guy (Beato). His son is capable of stunning absolute and relative pitch id-ing. Don't know where that's going to lead him but it is truly jaw dropping as a skill. This is just one of a series of his development.

The guy is a super music nerd... and the prodigy kids are always annoying as hell... however the guy has tons of videos that I love nerding out on because I never really talk to Flamenco colleagues about that stuff. His arrogance is off putting at first but the topics are great.... my favorite is his Steve vai interview

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 5 2018 6:35:35

El Burdo

Posts: 632
Joined: Sep. 8 2011

RE: Gibson (in reply to Ricardo)

Watched a few of his videos now, outside of the ear training and I must say, I like him. No particular edges for me. Watching the 'don't ever give up' one right now, as I battle with this all the time.

On the video I posted I didn't realise it was a composite - the bit that freaked me out starts at 6'30".

(I like Steve Vai's description of his interview for the gig with Frank Zappa. He seems OK too.)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 5 2018 10:01:59

JasonM

Posts: 2052
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: Gibson (in reply to El Burdo)

I like Beato too. Hes was a New Yorker and can have that pushy vibe. He's got so many videos now that i can't even find what I'm looking for anymore. I remember at one point he said something like 'I need to put out a video everyday to make my channel successful cuz that's what other guys do" so now he's got all this stuff like What makes this song great.... etc. But he's got a lot of good info in there. Not too many of his caliber of any on YouTube. I've learned a lot.

I like the video where he was whining about Apple products. Steve via one was really cool.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 5 2018 23:14:13