Question about traditional pegs

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Gabewolf

Posts: 67
Joined: Feb. 12 2016
From: Cleveland, Ohio

Question about traditional pegs

Hey guys! I am having some trouble with the G-string peg on my guitar (the guitar is used and has had this problem since I bought it, it is possible that the pegs are not original). All the other pegs are great but for some reason that one does not turn smoothly and it makes is extremely difficult to get my string in tune. I put peg lubricant on all my pegs each time I change the strings and that fixes it for about a day before it goes back to being difficult. Should I try swapping the peg with another one in the set to determine if it is the peg or the hole? Should I take some sandpaper to the peg? What do you guys suggest?
Thanks!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 22 2017 19:19:47

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Question about traditional pegs (in reply to Gabewolf)

Don't sand the peg, don't swap pegs. I gotta take a nap, be back later to help.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 23 2017 7:33:09

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Question about traditional pegs (in reply to Gabewolf)

What are you using as peg lubricant?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 23 2017 11:30:21

Gabewolf

Posts: 67
Joined: Feb. 12 2016
From: Cleveland, Ohio

RE: Question about traditional pegs (in reply to estebanana)

quote:

ORIGINAL: estebanana

What are you using as peg lubricant?

I'm using this product: https://www.amazon.com/Original-Peg-Drops-Ardsley-Oz/dp/B000F3JO7M

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 23 2017 15:01:49

Njål Bendixen

Posts: 65
Joined: Aug. 25 2016

RE: Question about traditional pegs (in reply to Gabewolf)

Probably the peg is not round, or the peghole is not round, or the taper of the peg does not fit the taper of the peg hole.

The solution is to take the instrument to an accomplished luthier. Do not take the guitar to a guitar maker!!! unless the guitar maker happens to be a peg specialist!!! If you can not find a guitar maker who is a peg specialist where you live, then take the guitar to a lute maker or a violin maker. Don't believe that a guitar maker is a peg specialist just because said guitar maker says so. There are a lot of great guitar makers who have no clue how to work with peg, even if they think they know.

Don't try anything yourself. Just get someone who know to sort it out. It will be a cheap job, and the peg will probably work much better than the other ones. Then get the luthier to sort out the 5 other pegs!!!

Njål

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 23 2017 18:28:57

keith

Posts: 1108
Joined: Sep. 29 2009
From: Back in Boston

RE: Question about traditional pegs (in reply to Gabewolf)

ditto on taking it to a violin shop but be sure to give them specific instructions on the length and where to drill the hole. Years ago I took my Ramirez to a violin shop to have the pegs done as the pegs were original from 1966. Fortunately there was enough wood in the head for reaming and fitting. If the pegs are on the thick side and/or the holes are large the holes may have to be filled and re-drilled and then reamed. One thing that comes to mind--the humidity in your space. Cleveland gets humid in the summer and that particular peg/hole may be reacting to humidity more than the others. You might try rubbing pencil graphite on the peg (clean off the peg dope) as it seems to help when the humidity gets high. I moved to Louisville KY last year and the humidity is quite high. I run a de-humidifier in the late spring to early fall months and use pencil graphite which seems to do the trick.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 23 2017 22:11:27

jshelton5040

Posts: 1500
Joined: Jan. 17 2005

RE: Question about traditional pegs (in reply to keith)

quote:

ORIGINAL: keith

ditto on taking it to a violin shop but be sure to give them specific instructions on the length and where to drill the hole. Years ago I took my Ramirez to a violin shop to have the pegs done as the pegs were original from 1966. Fortunately there was enough wood in the head for reaming and fitting. If the pegs are on the thick side and/or the holes are large the holes may have to be filled and re-drilled and then reamed. One thing that comes to mind--the humidity in your space. Cleveland gets humid in the summer and that particular peg/hole may be reacting to humidity more than the others. You might try rubbing pencil graphite on the peg (clean off the peg dope) as it seems to help when the humidity gets high. I moved to Louisville KY last year and the humidity is quite high. I run a de-humidifier in the late spring to early fall months and use pencil graphite which seems to do the trick.

Keith is exactly right. Our dehumidifier is running nonstop lately just to keep the humidity in the mid-forties. A little too wet for gluing braces. Pencil graphite is something I chanced upon years ago as an excellent peg lubricant, much better than peg dope.

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John Shelton - www.sheltonfarrettaguitars.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 23 2017 23:15:21

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Question about traditional pegs (in reply to Gabewolf)

Sorry it takes so long to get back to you time difference and sleeping times vary.

I don't know why your peg is not working well, but the most common reasons is that the peg itself has dried and is not round, wear has reshaped the hole or the peg and other mechanical wear related issues.

I asked about the type of peg compound you use because the drops and the stick types are very different. The drops are mostly alcohol and they work by swelling the peg slightly, in addition to putting on some type of 'grabbing agent' like diluted gum arabic- They all have proprietary mixes. I personally recommend you never use them, ever. They are not a long term solution and could be the actual problem or triggering the problem to get worse.

The two compounds for guitar pegs I recommend are Pirastro or Hill peg compound. They are a mixtures of powdered graphite in a very dry binder. These are the best I've found and I've looked at all kids of peg products.

Shar Music carries Hill compound for about $9.00 and Pirastro can be found at violin suppliers. Pirastro is slightly drier.

If you want to try it, take out the G peg, and gently wrap a swatch of 0000 steel wool around the peg and only with enough pressure to clean the peg surface twist the peg in the wool. Once the peg is clean try putting it back in the hole and see if it chatters, gently turn it, but don't drive it in. Remove the peg and inspect it to see if it contacts the hole evenly, or if there are alternating shiny and dull patches indicating non contact.

Also inspect the peg to see if it has mechanical wear that causes 'collaring' - Collar effect is when the back of the peghead hole where it meets the peg is digging a ledge in the peg. The peg will have ring around it and that change in diameter will have a big negative effect on peg performance. If the peg has that ring of wear a violin maker will have to shave the peg. This happens more on violins and cellos because they have a hard maple peg box, but it can happen on old guitars too if the pegs are softer wood.

It will be difficult for you to determine if the peg is out of round, or the hole, but this will give you more information and it won't hurt the situation. At this point after removing what ever was on the peg you could try the peg compound. Lightly rub off some compound on the peg and put it in the hole and gently turn the peg. Remove the peg and look for the dull and shiny areas. Rub more compound on the dull areas and repeat. The idea is to coat the inside of the hole with compound so you are getting complete coverage with the least amount of compound you can use.

If you go that route and try it first you might solve the problem, I think the use of drops possibly exaggerated the situation.

______________________________

If you go to a maker to work on the pegs, yes try a violin shop. If the tips of the pegs have a decorative inlay, if they set the pegs too deep you can't trim the peg to make it look right. About 3/8th inch of peg sticking out the top looks good. But up to 1/2" is acceptable on peg shaving if you don't want to cut off the decoration.

If the pegs are not decorative and the peg shaft has enough material setting them so that 20 to 23 mm of shaft sticks out the back will reduce the amount of strain on the peg; the shop uses the reamer to open the holes after carefully shaving the peg round. You want to leave the peg as large in diameter as possible and set it with 20 mm 23 mm extending because the thicker peg will be stronger, the deep set depth will make them easier to turn. The old style was to leave more peg sticking out the back of the peg head because it looks better, but it causes more stress.

_____________________

If the peg looks healthy the Hill compound properly applied will likely solve the issue, if not then the shop. But talk to the person doing the work and make sure they get the set depth information you want.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 24 2017 1:36:42

Gabewolf

Posts: 67
Joined: Feb. 12 2016
From: Cleveland, Ohio

RE: Question about traditional pegs (in reply to estebanana)

Thanks guys for all the great information! Regarding humidity, this is the first summer the guitar has spent in Cleveland, I bought it used online from someone out west. Though it is still a possible cause to the problem. Luckily I haven't noticed the drops making it worse, but I will switch to the other compounds and see how that does.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 24 2017 14:39:53