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Faster traditional rosette
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NorCalluthier
Posts: 136
Joined: Apr. 16 2016
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RE: Faster traditional rosette (in reply to NorCalluthier)
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Hello Norman and Andy, Norman I watched Michael Thames video, and I use a different approach. I made a dedicated router base for cutting the groove into the top to take the rosette. I then made a polyethylene plastic mold using that router base with the same router bit. I then assemble the single rosette in the plastic mold, and glue it with crazy-glue, which doesn't stick to the mold, and doesn't swell up the wood like water based glue. The rosette then fits the groove in the top very well indeed! Andy I've looked at, and admired, many of the rosettes of Santos and Domingo Esteso. I'm all set up to do that type of mosaic rosette, but they all look like a lot of work. A friend copied an Esteso rosette from the 1920's that is mostly mother of pearl. I thought that I was going to dislike it, but ended up thinking that it was really attractive. So, having been "given permission" to use MOP in a traditional Spanish guitar rosette by no less than Domingo Esteso, I've been designing various floral patterns that use MOP dots. These designs have the great virtue of being "error tolerant". A black background covers a multitude of sins! I think that they will be relatively quick to make, but then my time estimates for a task are laughably far off. I'm a little bit concerned that they might not find favor with buyers, but I think I'll at least make up a couple of them, and see if I like them myself. Cheers, Brian
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Date Jun. 24 2017 23:07:52
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NorCalluthier
Posts: 136
Joined: Apr. 16 2016
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RE: Faster traditional rosette (in reply to NorCalluthier)
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Hello Stephen, Anders, and Tom, Thanks for posting your videos Stephen, I hadn't seen them before. My very rough estimates for the time I spend: ~ making a rosette 10-15 hours ~ making a guitar 200 hours Even allowing for my slow, meticulous personality, these seem like excessive amounts of time. Tom, I have looked at all the available ready made rosettes, and they all seem way too busy, not unlike modern flamenco playing (;->)... So here is what I've been doing. When I get my floral designs finalized, I'll post them under this topic. Cheers, Brian
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Date Jun. 25 2017 16:15:02
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Tom Blackshear
Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008
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RE: Faster traditional rosette (in reply to NorCalluthier)
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quote:
Tom, I have looked at all the available ready made rosettes, and they all seem way too busy, not unlike modern flamenco playing (;->)... There is certainly nothing wrong with the rosette you made but, as you know, rosettes are very subjective, as I would go for a little more color variance like red, green, and black. I'm still locked into the Persian styles that many Spanish builders used throughout the years. But to each his own; my hands are getting older and the premade styles keep up with being quality made, and give me time to concentrate on the fine tuning of the voice. So, go for it! If you have to make a statement about your creative side with a rosette, then do it!
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Tom Blackshear Guitar maker
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Date Jun. 25 2017 18:02:36
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estebanana
Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
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RE: Faster traditional rosette (in reply to NorCalluthier)
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quote:
My very rough estimates for the time I spend: ~ making a rosette 10-15 hours ~ making a guitar 200 hours Even allowing for my slow, meticulous personality, these seem like excessive amounts of time. Tom, I have looked at all the available ready made rosettes, and they all seem way too busy, not unlike modern flamenco playing (;->)... So here is what I've been doing. When I get my floral designs finalized, I'll post them under this topic. I can make them quite fast, and now that I've practiced making them fast over and over they look really good. However I really changed my head on rosettes, I don't keep track of time, but they are done when they are done. I've doubled back to a much closer rosettes to the Manuel Ramirez, Domingo E Santos rosettes in style and spirit. More black and red, thin against thick lines, thin lines bordering blacks. Mosaic that is complex, but not unreadable visually. I agree a lot of contemporary rosette making suffers from 'horror vacui' the fear of open space. Busier is not better. It's more about how you play movement off of stillness. Put up your floral tiles anytime we all want to to see them. There is also a "show your rosettes" thread somewhere that has not been updated in several months, perhaps you could find it and add yours? Or I'll find it a bump it for you. Premade rosettes are an abomination and an insult to the art of guitar making. They have no place in this art other than as disgusting commercial baubles.
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https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
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Date Jun. 26 2017 0:26:03
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NorCalluthier
Posts: 136
Joined: Apr. 16 2016
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RE: Faster traditional rosette (in reply to NorCalluthier)
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Hello Ethan, Back in the 1970's I invented a leather working tool made from hard maple. In seven years we made 74,000 of them. I timed every operation in seconds, and by the seventh year we had cut the time down to less than a tenth of what it was when we started. So I'm very familiar with how fast it is possible to get at something that you do over and over again. I'll be making around six to ten guitars a year. My rosette making process produces around 25 rosettes. So Ill need to do a batch of rosettes about every three years. At my age---77---I'll be lucky to be able to reconstruct the process from my notes, and my memory, the next time I need to run a a batch! I recently gave over the French polishing of my instruments to an expert. I can do it acceptably, but I'm never going to do it enough to get efficient at it---or do nearly as good a job as she does. She has French polished over 1,000 guitars! So, I'll try making a couple of rosettes of the floral design, and a student and I worked out a method of adapting the basic idea of drilling holes in a black background for doing a Hauser mosaic copy. As I said, a black background, and black epoxy, covers up a multitude of sins! Also, I'm looking forward to being able to try variations on each rosette, since they will be made one at a time. Thanks for your post! Cheers, Brian
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Date Jun. 27 2017 20:23:33
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