Seguiriyas, yet again

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roozbeh60

Posts: 51
Joined: Apr. 9 2015

Seguiriyas, yet again

So I'm in the state of life right now that Seguiriyas just makes me zone out and forget all my problems. I'm trying to learn it and to be honest it is not the toughest of Palos compared to Solea and Bulerias. However, it is nearly impossible to play it as clean as the ones you listen to.

My question is this: How can you make the Rasgueados sound "Machine Gun" like?
I'm referring to the ones you hear Moraito Chico and Tomatito (with Camaron) play. My instructor told me that when those guys play Rasgueados, every stroke needs a downward stroke with your hand but that is so difficult to do in such high speed!
I also do a 3 finger followed by a 4 finger Rasgueado and find it difficult to make the pinky sound strong. Do you guys know any techniques or exercises to make it sound Clean and Loud like the Maestros? Ofcourse many many hours need to be put into it as well...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 31 2017 15:08:31

rombsix

Posts: 7813
Joined: Jan. 11 2006
From: Beirut, Lebanon

RE: Seguiriyas, yet again (in reply to roozbeh60)

Post a video and explain / show what you mean.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 31 2017 17:11:18

roozbeh60

Posts: 51
Joined: Apr. 9 2015

RE: Seguiriyas, yet again (in reply to rombsix)

These two are the best of Rasgueados that I find! I'll try to post a video of my own tonight so the difference in style can be heard. I can't get such an attach in every stroke of my Rasgueados like these guys no matter how fast or slow I play!!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 31 2017 17:31:35

Piwin

Posts: 3562
Joined: Feb. 9 2016

RE: Seguiriyas, yet again (in reply to roozbeh60)

quote:

My instructor told me that when those guys play Rasgueados, every stroke needs a downward stroke with your hand

I think this was the sentence that is kind of hard to understand. If it just means clearly separating each stroke of the rasgueado (instead of just one sloppy "wave") then yes, that's the way to do it. Practice it by going slow. You can play around with a metronome to change what finger is playing the strong beat. For instance, if you use the amii rasgueado but playing as triplets and make sure that the strong beat sticks out, then you'll be putting the emphasis on each finger. so A m i / I a m / I i a / M i i and repeat. If you just play it regularly as you would in seguiryas than the strong beat is always on the A finger so you're not practicing emphasizing the other fingers. Anyways, it's a good exercice I think. And you can do this with any other kind of rasgueado. The idea is just to play the rasgueado pattern in a way where you don't go full circle every beat. That way the beat always fall on a different finger. Oh and rasgueado practice can be rough on the hand, so don't start with that. Make sure you're already warmed up when you do it.
As far as the pinky goes, it's pretty much the same thing. Just have to practice it slow and clearly separate each finger. If it can reassure you, some great players don't use the pinky at all (Gerardo Nunez).

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 31 2017 18:55:38

Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Seguiriyas, yet again (in reply to roozbeh60)

My goodness, look at the young Morao. Glad I got to have a beer and a laugh with him. A true Jerezano thumb.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 31 2017 20:00:08

roozbeh60

Posts: 51
Joined: Apr. 9 2015

RE: Seguiriyas, yet again (in reply to Piwin)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Piwin

quote:

My instructor told me that when those guys play Rasgueados, every stroke needs a downward stroke with your hand

I think this was the sentence that is kind of hard to understand. If it just means clearly separating each stroke of the rasgueado (instead of just one sloppy "wave") then yes, that's the way to do it. Practice it by going slow. You can play around with a metronome to change what finger is playing the strong beat. For instance, if you use the amii rasgueado but playing as triplets and make sure that the strong beat sticks out, then you'll be putting the emphasis on each finger. so A m i / I a m / I i a / M i i and repeat. If you just play it regularly as you would in seguiryas than the strong beat is always on the A finger so you're not practicing emphasizing the other fingers. Anyways, it's a good exercice I think. And you can do this with any other kind of rasgueado. The idea is just to play the rasgueado pattern in a way where you don't go full circle every beat. That way the beat always fall on a different finger. Oh and rasgueado practice can be rough on the hand, so don't start with that. Make sure you're already warmed up when you do it.
As far as the pinky goes, it's pretty much the same thing. Just have to practice it slow and clearly separate each finger. If it can reassure you, some great players don't use the pinky at all (Gerardo Nunez).

Thanks yeah that has pretty much been my life story for the past month or so.. Then comes the art of putting the accents in the right place so the volume raises from the a to the i .. Thanks for the advice though seems like I just have to age 2 more years until the speed gets itself up there :)
I do use the pinky as well to help me play without a lag.. I'm still weak at playing with no pause between the i and the a, the pinky seems to get rid of that gap but I want to master the 3 finger rasgueado.
Thanks for the advice though

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 31 2017 20:15:09

rombsix

Posts: 7813
Joined: Jan. 11 2006
From: Beirut, Lebanon

RE: Seguiriyas, yet again (in reply to roozbeh60)

Look up on the foro threads about "flicking versus non-flicking" rasgueados. That's a start...

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 31 2017 21:52:39

Erik van Goch

Posts: 1787
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands

RE: Seguiriyas, yet again (in reply to roozbeh60)

Plenty of examples on the www

and i don't see lots of hand moves at 1:27 :-)

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 1 2017 17:53:38

roozbeh60

Posts: 51
Joined: Apr. 9 2015

RE: Seguiriyas, yet again (in reply to rombsix)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rombsix

Look up on the foro threads about "flicking versus non-flicking" rasgueados. That's a start...

Very Informative Ramzi thanks! I obviously much prefer the flicking style in Seguiriyas..
When the Rasgueados are loud and stand out like that, the softerparts sink in so much better!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 1 2017 20:34:25

roozbeh60

Posts: 51
Joined: Apr. 9 2015

RE: Seguiriyas, yet again (in reply to Erik van Goch)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik van Goch

Plenty of examples on the www

and i don't see lots of hand moves at 1:27 :-)

Thanks Erik I've seen that one video of Moraito maybe 40 times, and his hands don't seem to move, but logic tells me he is just doing it fast enough for me not to notice it in the video..

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 1 2017 20:36:32

Piwin

Posts: 3562
Joined: Feb. 9 2016

RE: Seguiriyas, yet again (in reply to roozbeh60)

quote:

his hands don't seem to move

that's because they don't

Rasgueado is in the fingers and the hand stays put.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 1 2017 20:59:13

Ricardo

Posts: 14822
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Seguiriyas, yet again (in reply to roozbeh60)

The teacher implies using ch a m i consecutive and repeating downstrokes only, flicked off the thumb (I flick ch off of loaded a and a off of loaded m....) which is a legit technique.

However based on your vid examples, you are after the basic a m i down, i up to reload type of rasgueado pattern. Again I personally load the a finger behind the m, and m and i are loaded and flick off of the bent thumb, the i up stroke pulls all finger into the hand to reload. You have to practice starting i up to get a fluid repeat and speedy recover to make it smooth when practicing, but the actually rhythmic pattern of this thing used in siguiriyas is am-ii-am-i.....am ii am i stop. There is another version using Chiquito finger same pattern but rhythm becomes ch a m i, i ch a m, i ..... repeat and stop.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 1 2017 21:20:01

roozbeh60

Posts: 51
Joined: Apr. 9 2015

RE: Seguiriyas, yet again (in reply to Ricardo)

Ricardo I'm going to follow what you said on am-ii-am-i, am-ii-am-i
that rhythm is more of a typical Seguiriyas and has more power than the ch could put. I'll see how it goes!
Thanks everyone, I'm already sounding more like a machine gun, maybe a pellet gun