How many Falsetas to play well?

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How many Falsetas to play well?

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rainbow

Posts: 16
Joined: Mar. 19 2017

How many Falsetas to play well?

Hello, i play since 1 year flamenco and has learned over 50 buleria falsetas and now i asked me, how many i must learn to play it right. i think when i play all these behind each other
it takes only a few minutes. what do you recommend?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 7 2017 19:03:11

Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3023
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: How many Falsetas to play well? (in reply to rainbow)

Think quality over quantity my friend... I would rather hear one falseta played well than 50 played badly (not saying you play them badly but bulerias are difficult). At one year focus on the basics and getting your compás and remates rock-solid, then build up from there would be my advice. And upload your playing here, I'd like to hear it.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 7 2017 19:32:11

constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1676
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: How many Falsetas to play well? (in reply to rainbow)

Exactly what Andy said.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 7 2017 19:49:56

rainbow

Posts: 16
Joined: Mar. 19 2017

RE: How many Falsetas to play well? (in reply to rainbow)

i can play it only on eguitar, because my classic guitars has extremly high strings and i have no flamenco guitar.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 8 2017 14:55:02

Piwin

Posts: 3559
Joined: Feb. 9 2016

RE: How many Falsetas to play well? (in reply to rainbow)

The question doesn't really make any sense. Falsetas are technically part of a whole, used in accompaniment. Stringing many falsetas together doesn't necessarily make a solo guitarra piece.
In the context of accompaniment, you can get by with even just one falseta, even if you have to repeat it. But what will make you a good accompanist is whether you choose the right falseta, the most tasteful and the one that fits with what you're accompanying. And to do that, you need to know as many falsetas as you can, and there's never a point where you know enough. It's a lifelong process.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 8 2017 15:49:27

Erik van Goch

Posts: 1787
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands

RE: How many Falsetas to play well? (in reply to rainbow)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rainbow

i play since 1 year now, learned over 50 buleria falsetas and when i play all these behind each other it takes only a few minutes. what do you recommend?

Slow down for a start since you must be the fasted player in the world if you can play 50 falsetas of average length in just a few minutes :-).

I don't know that many players who could actually play/remember 50 falsetas of Bulerias at any given moment and in the 30 years i play flamenco i doubt i learned that many myself.
Like Andy (and all knowledgeable flamenco players) i believe it's better to play 1 falseta well than to play 50 ones half well.

If you string falsetas in a tasteful way you can produce a lovely solo but 50 falsetas is way to much. So out of these 50 falsetas select yourself about 10 falsetas you can play well and/or goes well together and try to construct a piece with that (and include some well played in between compas variations, a nice intro and a nice finale because you can not build a house on bricks alone) and try to play them as well as you can.

A video would indeed be nice, it gives an idea of your playing and it's not that often flamenco is played on an electric guitar.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 8 2017 16:50:39

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: How many Falsetas to play well? (in reply to rainbow)

I'm trying to make sure and have two per palo, usually like an "introey" kind of one and then one that can go in the song.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 8 2017 17:01:47

Erik van Goch

Posts: 1787
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands

RE: How many Falsetas to play well? (in reply to Leñador)

It was Paco Serrano's strategy as well to have at least a nice intro and a couple of falsetas in his fingers for each style of flamenco so he could accompany everything they asked him to.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 8 2017 19:09:44

rainbow

Posts: 16
Joined: Mar. 19 2017

RE: How many Falsetas to play well? (in reply to rainbow)

but without so much falsetas, i cant play the most things. fingerstyle patterns or chord progressions must i learn i falsetas. the most falsetas, which i have found (but not learned) are only a few scales or a realy short fingerstyle part. how should i build with it a whole song?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 10 2017 5:06:30

Piwin

Posts: 3559
Joined: Feb. 9 2016

RE: How many Falsetas to play well? (in reply to rainbow)

It's hard for me to gauge what you know or don't know but my guess is that for starters you need to get a firmer understanding of the structure of flamenco and just how it all more or less works. Learn how to play compas, and variations on compas, including a few cierres maybe, that's the starting point. If you can't do that, than any explanation on how falsetas can fit together would really be pointless.

_____________________________

"Anything you do can be fixed. What you cannot fix is the perfection of a blank page. What you cannot fix is that pristine, unsullied whiteness of a screen or a page with nothing on it—because there’s nothing there to fix."

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 10 2017 7:18:54

Ricardo

Posts: 14806
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: How many Falsetas to play well? (in reply to rainbow)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rainbow

but without so much falsetas, i cant play the most things. fingerstyle patterns or chord progressions must i learn i falsetas. the most falsetas, which i have found (but not learned) are only a few scales or a realy short fingerstyle part. how should i build with it a whole song?

You improvise the arrangement while maintaining compas. End after 4 or 5 minutes, done.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 10 2017 10:56:45

Erik van Goch

Posts: 1787
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands

RE: How many Falsetas to play well? (in reply to rainbow)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rainbow

how should i build with it a whole song?

In flamenco you have to distinguish falsetas (the more melodic passages that can go everywhere and expand various compasses) and the so called compas variations, the standard variations that are played in between the falsetas.
The base of each flamenco piece are the compas variations, simple variations on the main chord(s). To make it more adventurous you ad 1 or more falsetas. In bulerias you can for instance play 1 or more falsetas in a row, then a couple of compas variations (like 2 or 3), then 1 or more falsetas, a couple of compas variations etc. In general you start with something that sounds like an intro, then you play a nice series of falsetas and compas variations (you can link them to your likings) and you end with something that sounds like an ending.

Like in this bulerias:

0:00 intro (falsetas)
0:23 compas variations
0:29 falsetas
1:06 compas variations
1:12 falsetas
1:43 compas variations
1:52 falsetas
2:20 compas variation
2:25 falsetas
2:49 compas variations/modulation
3:02 final falsea
3:29 final compas variation.

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The smaller the object of your focus the bigger the result.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 10 2017 23:44:14

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: How many Falsetas to play well? (in reply to rainbow)

quote:

but without so much falsetas, i cant play the most things. fingerstyle patterns or chord progressions must i learn i falsetas. the most falsetas, which i have found (but not learned) are only a few scales or a realy short fingerstyle part. how should i build with it a whole song?

Where are you from? Texas, Kansas City, Ulan Bator, Kashgar?

Eat many tuna fish sandwiches every day and grow huge fat fingers that don't move very much. Then only play five falsetas you can play with thumb and one finger.

This worked for me.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 11 2017 8:12:39

Stu

Posts: 2529
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

RE: How many Falsetas to play well? (in reply to rainbow)

quote:

has learned over 50 buleria falsetas

not sure I know 50 now! after 13 years of playing.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 16 2017 18:02:30

pundi64

Posts: 234
Joined: Jul. 29 2016
From: Thailand

RE: How many Falsetas to play well? (in reply to rainbow)

With Flamenco it is a life long process to perfection.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 16 2017 20:52:57

Mark2

Posts: 1871
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco

RE: How many Falsetas to play well? (in reply to rainbow)

I've forgotten more than fifty-does that count?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 16 2017 22:06:48

rainbow

Posts: 16
Joined: Mar. 19 2017

RE: How many Falsetas to play well? (in reply to rainbow)

50 is not much. a falseta is often short. on acoustic i can play ~40songs, long classical peaces and many fingerstyle songs from tommy emanuel. on eguitar i can play over 140 neo classic shred licks/solos without notes. sometimes i learn on one day 4 solos from a band like rhapsody of fire (neoclassic metal band with realy dificult sweep solos) or fusion licks from rick graham from youtube. i have it all in my brain and when i am in the summer on a sea or river, i play hours all songs. i learn a peace likerecuerdos de la alhambra or el ultimo tremolo in 2 days, sometimes 2 peaces at the same time.

@ Erik van Goch
what is a compas variation? are these the silent chords they play when the singer sings? where can i find tabs for it?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 18 2017 19:37:54

Piwin

Posts: 3559
Joined: Feb. 9 2016

RE: How many Falsetas to play well? (in reply to rainbow)

quote:

what is a compas variation?

OK. So you're an absolute beginner at flamenco. Perfectly fine. Tell if I'm wrong but when you say you've been playing flamenco for 1 year, it's all been solo playing off of tabs and no classes or playing with anyone else, right?
What you've done is basically skip the first step in flamenco. Which is fine, but now you really should go back to that first step and get it down. You need to grasp the basics of flamenco, the fundamental structure. The best option is always to get a teacher. If that's not possible, there are loads of websites or manuals that go over the basics. I'd honestly forget about the falsetas for a while and just focus on getting the basics.
Don't worry it's a very common mistake with foreigners learning flamenco on their own. It's kind of like if you learned how to shred through a solo and then you asked someone "what's a chorus?" or "how do I strum?". So if you want to "play it right" like you said in your OP, it won't be about learning more falsetas, it'll be a learning the basics, it won't be so much about playing but about understanding what you're playing.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 18 2017 20:12:08

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: How many Falsetas to play well? (in reply to rainbow)

Or like trying to learn physics before you know addition and subtraction.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 18 2017 21:47:34

rainbow

Posts: 16
Joined: Mar. 19 2017

RE: How many Falsetas to play well? (in reply to rainbow)

@Piwin: but what are the basics now?
for me are the basics all that, what i can find in a flamenco book on the first sites like techniques like rasguedo and golpe, the compas and all other basic things to play flamenco guitar.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 19 2017 7:23:01

Piwin

Posts: 3559
Joined: Feb. 9 2016

RE: How many Falsetas to play well? (in reply to rainbow)

quote:

for me are the basics all that, what i can find in a flamenco book on the first sites like techniques like rasguedo and golpe, the compas and all other basic things to play flamenco guitar.

I hear you. That's pretty much why I was recommending a few hours with a teacher because most manuals I've seen aren't really good at covering those things. They'll cover technique, tell you that compas is this series of beats with these or those strong beats and then thow out a bunch of falsetas. What I'm trying to say it's dont think "basics for flamenco guitar", think "basics of flamenco in general".

One thing that can be kind of confusing in flamenco is how one term can refer to several different things (not totally different, but not exactly the same). Like when you say compas, as a general term that's the rythmic structure. But if someone says a guitar player is playing el compas, that refers to something a bit more specific. If you're playing a falseta, you're playing in compas (i.e. you're sticking to the rythmic structure, or at least you should be

) but that's not the same thing as playing the compas.

That compas (the one Erik was referring to) is basically a rythmic line with usually more or less the same chords that everyone recognizes. It doesn't really have a melody over it or anything, just chords with a certain way of playing them (like the compas por bulerias is strummed and often has rasgueado in it, the compas por solea usually has some arpeggios in it, etc.). It's your baseline.

Functionally, it is what a guitar player would play when the singer would have to take a break. Say the singer finishes his verse and need to take a breath before the next one, the guitar player just plays compas. When accompanying a singer you don't play a falseta everytime he stops singing, there are rules about that too. And basically, a solo guitar piece mimics the structure of accompaniment. The falsetas are kind of like the singer's voice, and once you go through a verse, you take a break and go back to compas. That you can see very clearly in the video that Erik kindly outlined. If you follow along it should be pretty apparent what the difference between the falsetas and the compas is.

And then there are endless variations on compas, rythmic or otherwise. You could go on playing for a long time just playing compas and variation of it, without ever adding a falseta, and if you know enough variations it would still be an interesting listen (well, I think it would but others may not!).

My opinion is that at some point everyone should put the guitar down for a while and try to understand the structure of flamenco as a whole. So looking up things that aren't specific to the guitar. Honestly, that's the hardest part about flamenco. It's not the technique or getting a real fast picado or whatever, it's just understanding the structure, because it's just incredibly intricate with a huge amount of variations. It's just this big wall of information that everyone at some point has to try and scramble over. Anyways, hope that helps.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 19 2017 10:13:07

Ricardo

Posts: 14806
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: How many Falsetas to play well? (in reply to rainbow)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rainbow

50 is not much. a falseta is often short. on acoustic i can play ~40songs, long classical peaces and many fingerstyle songs from tommy emanuel. on eguitar i can play over 140 neo classic shred licks/solos without notes. sometimes i learn on one day 4 solos from a band like rhapsody of fire (neoclassic metal band with realy dificult sweep solos) or fusion licks from rick graham from youtube. i have it all in my brain and when i am in the summer on a sea or river, i play hours all songs. i learn a peace likerecuerdos de la alhambra or el ultimo tremolo in 2 days, sometimes 2 peaces at the same time.

@ Erik van Goch
what is a compas variation? are these the silent chords they play when the singer sings? where can i find tabs for it?

OOOOOH, you are one of THOSE guys

In that case, let's hear you do ONE falseta in compas with proper soniquete and technique expression, so we can decide if you need to trash the other 49 falsetas and start from scratch like ALL THE OTHER SHREDDERS have to do once they get serious about flamenco guitar. Or maybe you are really good and know exactly what you are doing, which would be a rarity.

I have to admit hearing you ask "what is a compas variation?" AFTER LEARNING 50 Freaking falsetas is....horrifying. Dude you should have learned 50 compas variations FIRST. I can only imagine how it sounds at this point.

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CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 19 2017 10:28:55

Dudnote

Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 13 2007

RE: How many Falsetas to play well? (in reply to rainbow)

Not quite sure what you mean by "first sites" - but books alone certainly should not be your main resource because they can't transmit aire. Paying super close attention to recordings and imitating short sections of them in minute detail will be much more valuable than working with partitions alone.

Flamenco is a set of song styles (palos) that each have certain rules regarding compas and how they are sung and danced. By "compas variations" you can start with all the standard traditional chord progressions that are used in each palos + the multiple ways regarding rythmic phrasing and use of the various techniques that are employed to avoid playing exactly the same thing over and over. Flamencos are always striving to add something that is new, so there are many many ways to play through a chord progression - i.e you can add / subtract rasgueos, arpegios, pulgars, alzapuas, golpes to make new ways of interpreting the basic chord progressions. Again listenning to and copying what other guitarists do is really important. software to slow tracks down is really helpful too.

Afterwards, once you've started getting the right aire then partitions can be a great resource too - but always better coupled with a recording. And frankly, just soloing really isn't half as important as knowing how to accompany dance and cante.

After 16 years of flamenco guitar I'm still struggling with the basics

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Ay compañerita de mi alma
tú ahora no me conoces.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 19 2017 10:36:26

Ricardo

Posts: 14806
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: How many Falsetas to play well? (in reply to rainbow)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rainbow

i can play it only on eguitar, because my classic guitars has extremly high strings and i have no flamenco guitar.

I don't know how on earth I missed this absolutely essential piece of information....50 buleria falsetas on ELECTRIC GUITAR is what we are dealing with???

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CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 19 2017 11:17:42

rainbow

Posts: 16
Joined: Mar. 19 2017

RE: How many Falsetas to play well? (in reply to rainbow)

ah, now i know what it is. i have learned this compas variations too. there are in many falsetas to find.

@ ricardo: i play it on eguitar, becauase i have no flamenco guitar. on eguitar i play neo classic metal, where i have over 140 licks/solos. (and on acoustic over 40). i have a special memory method to keep it in mind.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 19 2017 11:28:05

Piwin

Posts: 3559
Joined: Feb. 9 2016

RE: How many Falsetas to play well? (in reply to rainbow)

Well, I tried.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 19 2017 11:56:50

Ricardo

Posts: 14806
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: How many Falsetas to play well? (in reply to rainbow)

quote:

i have a special memory method to keep it in mind.

Wow...amazing, just amazing....

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CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 19 2017 11:56:50

rainbow

Posts: 16
Joined: Mar. 19 2017

RE: How many Falsetas to play well? (in reply to Piwin)

@ piwin: what? my english is not so good

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 19 2017 12:15:50

Piwin

Posts: 3559
Joined: Feb. 9 2016

RE: How many Falsetas to play well? (in reply to rainbow)

It just meant that I don't think I managed to make you understand what I was trying to say.
You said you found these "compas variations" in many falsetas. But that makes no sense, since they are two separate things. You can't have a compas variation in a falseta and you can't have a falseta in a compas variation. It'd be like saying, oh now I know what a chorus is, I found some in the verses... I know what you meant though, that you had a tab where you a falseta and also some variations on compas on it, but the point I was trying to make is that you need to understand what you're playing, the structure and how it all fits together, and when you say that you found compas variations in a falseta then I can only think that you didn't get the point.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 19 2017 13:30:33

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: How many Falsetas to play well? (in reply to rainbow)

Let's hear just one falseta rainbow, a recording is worth a thousand words.

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\m/

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 19 2017 14:15:33

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