Nail reinforcement

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Nail reinforcement

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constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1674
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

Nail reinforcement

I apologize for starting a new thread if this has already been covered. I did a search and didn't find quite this discussion, though I did find a bit about cyanoacrylate.

I have been using cyanoacrylate (Brush On Krazy Glue) with tissue paper and have found that it chips off pretty fast. My duet partner has "vinyl nails" done at a salon--consisting of a powder and a liquid which, when mixed together, form solid nail reinforcement that works well for him. I tried that stuff once, given to me by a woman who worked at a salon. It smelled so poisonous and when it got old on my nails peeled off with a fair size layer of my nails, so I didn't stick with it.

But I need something better than the glue. So I purchased some UV cureable nail gel (CACEE) and a UV lamp for nails. The gel--called that, but liquid really--smells much less horrible than the stuff that goes with the powder and cures nice and hard after 2 minutes under the UV lamp. But I read in the listing for it on Amazon that it is not formulated for use directly on nails; it is for topcoating over decorations and polish. So first I tried it over Krazy Glue, and of course after playing for a couple hours the glue cracked and peeled off. I may try it over something like Hard As Nails nail polishy stuff. Maybe even over my naked nails. Does anyone have experience with this kind of UV-cured stuff? Did you develop a horrible rash or did your fingers fall off?

_____________________________

Ethan Deutsch
www.edluthier.com
www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars
www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 3 2017 1:00:16

Dudnote

Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 13 2007

RE: Nail reinforcement (in reply to constructordeguitarras)

Thanks for posting this Ethan - I don't think UV gels have had that much foro time even if they have been mentioned briefly before (can't remember who said was using them).

I have been using a combination of superglue and acrylic powder (Piwin's top-tip). We've discussed that a couple of times recently. Pretty happy with it. With 2 to 3 layers I get a super resistant nail (with just 1 layer of acrylic powder it chips too easily).

But following a comment on a recent nail thread, I was thinking of trying out the UV gel option. I'll be really interested to hear how you get on with it. My main reasons for considering something else are
1) to see if it lasts longer than 1 week (although, I can sometimes get a reinforcement to last 2-3 weeks if it starts coming off slow enough to squidge new glue underneath / around the sides)
2) to see if my nails start looking healthier - thumb and pinky nail have gone a nasty brown color which looks green through the reinforcement.
3) sounds like UV gels could be quicker than superglue+acrylic powder (which dries slower than superglue alone).

So really looking forward to see what comes out of this nail thread

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 3 2017 2:13:51

Piwin

Posts: 3559
Joined: Feb. 9 2016

RE: Nail reinforcement (in reply to Dudnote)

quote:

I have been using a combination of superglue and acrylic powder

YAY

quote:

I was thinking of trying out the UV gel option

BOOOO

What, that wasn't helpful?

edit: don't forget, the type of finish you use really depends on how you move your fingers. Gel is better if you collapse the PIP from the PCP/MCPTR-TY. Acrylic+glue is better if the PIP stays in straight alignment with the MRCT and the MCURTSY.
QED

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 3 2017 2:22:16

AlVãl

Posts: 73
Joined: Oct. 20 2016

RE: Nail reinforcement (in reply to constructordeguitarras)

Hi Ethan
For what it's worth
I bought a UV lamp on gumtree for $10
Came with a few unused bottles of Gel sealer
I get about a month of use using this process

1 silk strip top third of nail glued on ...
2 wait for it to dry and lightly file to smooth
3 uber thin coat of UV gel over the glued silk
4 dry in UV lamp
5 light filing and buffing

It's not much thicker than my actual nail and feels solid and secure
Using an oil around the cuticle to keep it relatively healthy and stop
Drying out the nail

I have noticed it doesn't thin out my nail as the silk/glue acts as a buffer between the gel and the nail
And about of month of continued use

The nail additives are thin so not the thick acrylic type of finish
It works well for me .. Each to their own I guess

Nails nails nails

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 3 2017 2:22:55

Dudnote

Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 13 2007

RE: Nail reinforcement (in reply to Piwin)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Piwin
BOOOO

A pot of glue and a tub of powder has got to be a lot easier to carry around than a bunch of varnishes and a UV lamp.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 3 2017 2:26:05

Dudnote

Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 13 2007

RE: Nail reinforcement (in reply to Dudnote)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dudnote

quote:

ORIGINAL: Piwin
BOOOO

A pot of glue and a tub of powder has got to be a lot easier to carry around than a bunch of varnishes and a UV lamp.

and I can glue, powder & file on the bus to dance class - now where on a bus can you plug in your UV lamp??

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 3 2017 2:31:06

constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1674
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: Nail reinforcement (in reply to Dudnote)

Thank you for posting, guys.

The discoloration of your nails sounds scary, David.

I'll continue to post about the results I get with this stuff. I got the gel on Amazon for about $40 for 4 ounces (a lifetime supply if it doesn't go bad in the bottle--a metal one) and the lamp on Ebay for $15.88--the packaging looks direct from China.

_____________________________

Ethan Deutsch
www.edluthier.com
www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars
www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 3 2017 2:41:46

constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1674
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: Nail reinforcement (in reply to Dudnote)

quote:

now where on a bus can you plug in your UV lamp??

Oh, I'm sure you'll be able to plug it into your iPhone soon.

(I seem to be the last person not to have a cell phone of any kind.)

_____________________________

Ethan Deutsch
www.edluthier.com
www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars
www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 3 2017 2:44:00

Dudnote

Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 13 2007

RE: Nail reinforcement (in reply to constructordeguitarras)

quote:

ORIGINAL: constructordeguitarras
The discoloration of your nails sounds scary, David.

I don't know - I think it looks cool

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 3 2017 2:57:15

AlVãl

Posts: 73
Joined: Oct. 20 2016

RE: Nail reinforcement (in reply to Dudnote)

quote:

A pot of glue and a tub of powder has got to be a lot easier to carry around than a bunch of varnishes and a UV lamp.

Contrary
That's the great thing
Nothing to carry around - stays at home
I have a Savarez nail kit in my case which hasn't been opened
Just my experience anyway
Works well for the 5 classes and few gigs I play each week
Just found the glue powder mix short lived but works well I guess
Just came up with the idea of sealing the glue in place so it won't fly off
Nail seems healthy enough

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 3 2017 2:58:18

Dudnote

Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 13 2007

RE: Nail reinforcement (in reply to AlVãl)

quote:

ORIGINAL: AlVãl

quote:

A pot of glue and a tub of powder has got to be a lot easier to carry around than a bunch of varnishes and a UV lamp.

Contrary
That's the great thing
Nothing to carry around - stays at home
I have a Savarez nail kit in my case which hasn't been opened
Just my experience anyway
Works well for the 5 classes and few gigs I play each week
Just found the glue powder mix short lived but works well I guess
Just came up with the idea of sealing the glue in place so it won't fly off
Nail seems healthy enough

Ooooooo Piwin won't like that!!

Which silks are you using Al?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 3 2017 3:03:01

constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1674
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: Nail reinforcement (in reply to Dudnote)

I think Tomatito was using graphite powder as a lubricant--from the look of his guitar as well as his fingers.

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www.edluthier.com
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 3 2017 3:03:14

AlVãl

Posts: 73
Joined: Oct. 20 2016

RE: Nail reinforcement (in reply to Dudnote)

quote:

Ooooooo Piwin won't like that!!

Which silks are you using Al?

______________

Glue works fine on its own
Just the chipping and unreliability that bugged me
Just found a solution to nail woes
Just important to go very thin on the additives and using my mums old school suggestion of olive oil into
The cuticle -crazy eh?

I bought a some silk strips from a nail shop online
No Brand but no different from the expensive savarez option
Figure it's all the same

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 3 2017 3:29:40

FredGuitarraOle

Posts: 898
Joined: Dec. 6 2012
From: Lisboa, Portugal

RE: Nail reinforcement (in reply to constructordeguitarras)

Ethan you should try this nail hardener:
https://www.amazon.com/Quimica-Alemana-Esmalte-Endurecedor-para/dp/B0038IA8XA

You may have already tried nail hardeners before but this one is different. The protective coat you get is similar to the one you get with crazy glue but much better in my opinion. It lasts longer, dries faster, doesn't chip off after a couple days and when it gets old you just remove it with acetone and make a new one.

By the way, it dries in about 10 minutes but it takes a little more time for it to harden properly. Put it at the end of the day and let it harden overnight.

Give it a try, I've used crazy glue for two years and this is much better.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 3 2017 3:38:59

constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1674
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: Nail reinforcement (in reply to FredGuitarraOle)

Thanks, Fred. I saw that on Amazon and wondered about it. I'll give it a try.

_____________________________

Ethan Deutsch
www.edluthier.com
www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars
www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 3 2017 3:50:37

Dudnote

Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 13 2007

RE: Nail reinforcement (in reply to FredGuitarraOle)

Gracias Fred!!

Not heard of that one. Lots of great reviews on amazon etc. But a few really bad ones too (some complained of burning pain). Any idea what the active ingredient(s) is (are)?

Formaldehyde?????

I used a couple of formaldehyde based hardeners for a brief period a few years ago - but didn't like watching my nail absorbing up the carcinogen.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 3 2017 3:53:49

constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1674
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: Nail reinforcement (in reply to Dudnote)

Oooh, yeah, in the answered questions on Amazon it does say formaldehyde, and you are correct that it is carcinogenic. I think I'll skip this one.

I wonder about the effects of the UV radition from my lamp. Sunburn? Cancer?

_____________________________

Ethan Deutsch
www.edluthier.com
www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars
www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 3 2017 3:59:57

FredGuitarraOle

Posts: 898
Joined: Dec. 6 2012
From: Lisboa, Portugal

RE: Nail reinforcement (in reply to constructordeguitarras)

Yes, formaldehyde is one of the ingredients:
http://www.cosmeticsblog.es/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/qu%C3%ADmica-alemana-y-mavala-cient%C3%ADfico-1.jpg

The burns might happen if you put a very thick layer, they warn about that in the instructions. And this should not touch the skin, much less the cuticles.

About being carcinogenic, so is the UV radiation from that lamp and many other stuff you might have used. Most likely any solution that you might find for your nails will have that risk. For what it's worth, this is what Antonio Rey uses.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 3 2017 4:23:02

AlVãl

Posts: 73
Joined: Oct. 20 2016

RE: Nail reinforcement (in reply to constructordeguitarras)

quote:

I wonder about the effects of the UV radition from my lamp. Sunburn? Cancer?

someones view

40 seconds drying time once a month...
who knows?
figure there are far worse dangers out there ( food...cars..water..sun ..little old ladies on sedgeways )
and always wary of any link that starts with...The Truth behind.....but there it is.

think whatever you use, key is keeping the nail moist from the crap on it which dry's it out...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 3 2017 6:11:18

12850bd

Posts: 148
Joined: Nov. 9 2006
From: australia

RE: Nail reinforcement (in reply to constructordeguitarras)

From many years of experimenting with nail products
(1) I have found a really good solution is Sally Hansen Advanced Hard as Nails. Two or three layers and it lasts for a week before it starts to chip away. At this stage you can touch it up or just redo the nails. I play 3 classes a week and a gig most Sat nights.
(2) I dont use acrylic any more but the main issue is moisture and air getting under the edges and then they start to lift. If you coat the edges on a regular basis with and nail varnish you can prolong life indefinitely
(3) If you find you need to remove them I have found the best way is to soak cotton wool in acetone and place on the nail and then wrap in gladwrap or alfoil for 20 min. When you remove it the acrylic is a soft mush and can be wiped off with No damage to the nails

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 3 2017 6:45:46

pundi64

Posts: 234
Joined: Jul. 29 2016
From: Thailand

RE: Nail reinforcement (in reply to constructordeguitarras)

Excuse me but is everyone in here too unhealthy to grow strong nails, where you have to use super glue
or some other artificial finger destroying substance to play?

Seems odd to me.

Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (4)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 3 2017 7:06:31

Piwin

Posts: 3559
Joined: Feb. 9 2016

RE: Nail reinforcement (in reply to pundi64)

How often do you accompany dance and for how long in one go?
That's probably what's hardest on the nails. But even in just solo guitarra, if your nails are strong enough on their own it doesn't necessarily mean your nails are strong. It can mean that, but not necessarily. It can also mean that you're just playing too light on your feet.

_____________________________

"Anything you do can be fixed. What you cannot fix is the perfection of a blank page. What you cannot fix is that pristine, unsullied whiteness of a screen or a page with nothing on it—because there’s nothing there to fix."

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 3 2017 7:42:40

Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005

RE: Nail reinforcement (in reply to constructordeguitarras)

What the heck these pictures... u guys..

Why so much blabla about such a simple topic. Urinate on your nails every time u take a leak. And you will have very robust nails and crisp sound within 2 months. And before starting an argument, test it out and we talk in 2 month huhu

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 3 2017 7:58:18

Ricardo

Posts: 14799
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Nail reinforcement (in reply to constructordeguitarras)

quote:

ORIGINAL: constructordeguitarras

I apologize for starting a new thread if this has already been covered. I did a search and didn't find quite this discussion, though I did find a bit about cyanoacrylate.

I have been using cyanoacrylate (Brush On Krazy Glue) with tissue paper and have found that it chips off pretty fast. My duet partner has "vinyl nails" done at a salon--consisting of a powder and a liquid which, when mixed together, form solid nail reinforcement that works well for him. I tried that stuff once, given to me by a woman who worked at a salon. It smelled so poisonous and when it got old on my nails peeled off with a fair size layer of my nails, so I didn't stick with it.

But I need something better than the glue. So I purchased some UV cureable nail gel (CACEE) and a UV lamp for nails. The gel--called that, but liquid really--smells much less horrible than the stuff that goes with the powder and cures nice and hard after 2 minutes under the UV lamp. But I read in the listing for it on Amazon that it is not formulated for use directly on nails; it is for topcoating over decorations and polish. So first I tried it over Krazy Glue, and of course after playing for a couple hours the glue cracked and peeled off. I may try it over something like Hard As Nails nail polishy stuff. Maybe even over my naked nails. Does anyone have experience with this kind of UV-cured stuff? Did you develop a horrible rash or did your fingers fall off?

Your description of the chipping cracking and peeling of CA glue, even hours after putting it on, is typical situation when the glue goes bad. That is why I constantly add to discussions about it to keep it in a sealed plastic baggie, treat it as food. I can tell after a few hours how the stuff dries if it is fresh or not. If it is bad there is no point to keep using, I would just trash it and buy a new bottle. I have seen people buy new, use it once, and don't keep it sealed properly, and the next time it's already gone bad.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 3 2017 11:10:59

Blondie#2

Posts: 530
Joined: Sep. 14 2010

RE: Nail reinforcement (in reply to constructordeguitarras)

I used to use nail hardeners/varnish products but they chip off way quicker than CA glue, which lasts days and takes real hammering. I buy it as nail glue:

http://www.superdrug.com/Elegant-Touch/Elegant-Touch-Brush-on-False-Nail-Glue/p/448811?gclid=CjwKEAjw_6XIBRCisIGIrJeQ93oSJAA2cNtMEhkzAeRXk4mIYtU-UJhDOHqyoWcyd3DisAf3gETvLBoCmUDw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 3 2017 12:32:11

constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1674
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: Nail reinforcement (in reply to pundi64)

Pundi64--So far, I have very healthy nails. Just not thick enough to stand up to much flamenco playing. Some people are naturally blessed with thick nails, like my teacher Diego del Gastor was.

Doitsuji--Doesn't everyone always piss on their nails when they take a leak? I thought that was standard.

_____________________________

Ethan Deutsch
www.edluthier.com
www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars
www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 3 2017 14:46:51

pundi64

Posts: 234
Joined: Jul. 29 2016
From: Thailand

RE: Nail reinforcement (in reply to constructordeguitarras)

Yes guess your right, I've been blessed with having clear tough nails, that grow quickly.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 3 2017 21:06:56

Cervantes

Posts: 503
Joined: Jun. 14 2014
From: Encinitas, CA USA

RE: Nail reinforcement (in reply to constructordeguitarras)

I know Paco Pena has said he uses glue on his nails.
Maybe that is why I can't get a tone like his?
My nails don't have any problems with breaking but the nails on my I and M finger hook downward which causes them to catch on the strings so I always have to file them.
So do thicker nails make a better tone or easier to play?

_____________________________

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very early on. It grips you in a way that you can't get away - Paco Pena

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 3 2017 23:10:15

Cloth Ears

Posts: 152
Joined: Apr. 26 2005

RE: Nail reinforcement (in reply to Doitsujin)

quote:

Urinate on your nails every time u take a leak.

Thought you were trolling us for a moment Doit, but you have been on the foro since the early days and have posted lots.

Then I remembered how I was once told in Amsterdam, that you can wrap weed in lots of cellophane then use ammonia to seal its micro-perforations to stop the inquisitive sniffer dogs at customs. Since nails have a similar cellulose as part of their structure, I can imagine they might become harder, but more brittle as a result. Urine is full of ammonia which gives it the pungent smell.

So anyone care to admit they are peeing on their plucking hand after Doit's comment?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 4 2017 14:22:37

constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1674
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: Nail reinforcement (in reply to Cloth Ears)

quote:

Since nails have a similar cellulose as part of their structure,

No part of any animal (including humans) is made of cellulose. Only plants make cellulose. Nails are made of protein (and not calcium).

_____________________________

Ethan Deutsch
www.edluthier.com
www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars
www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 4 2017 14:25:17