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By this I mean what model guitar from what builder was the most aggressive sounding in the history of flamenco in your opinion? I suppose some qualities that make a guitar aggressive are rasp, percussiveness and biting attack
RE: Most aggressive flamenco guitar? (in reply to mark74)
Guitars by little known Spanish maker Santos Fernandez are reputed to be the most aggressive of all flamenco guitars ever made. The Santos Fernandez is so aggressive that it not only self destructs, but leaves the owners with permanent tendon damage.
Not much is known about him, really, other than he worked in Madrid during WWII and into the early 1960's. He evidently immigrated to the US where he continued to build guitars in the Los Angeles area, only a few of the instruments from that period survive and they are secretly held in private collections and used as bargaining chips between very exclusive collectors. You'll never get to see one, much less play one.
The sad part is that Fernandez is said to have died poor whilst living in a trailer park in Long beach CA in the early 1980's. The guitars he had not sold yet and the ones he was working on were lost in a fire in the trailer park shortly after his death. A Los Angeles County Sheriffs incident report states that an investigation into the fire showed evidence that personal property was removed from Fernandez' trailer after his passing, but the investigation was dropped as there were no leads into the possible theft. Arson was suspected.
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RE: Most aggressive flamenco guitar? (in reply to estebanana)
quote:
ORIGINAL: estebanana
Guitars by little known Spanish maker Santos Fernandez are reputed to be the most aggressive of all flamenco guitars ever made. The Santos Fernandez is so aggressive that it not only self destructs, but leaves the owners with permanent tendon damage.
Not much is known about him, really, other than he worked in Madrid during WWII and into the early 1960's. He evidently immigrated to the US where he continued to build guitars in the Los Angeles area, only a few of the instruments from that period survive and they are secretly held in private collections and used as bargaining chips between very exclusive collectors. You'll never get to see one, much less play one.
The sad part is that Fernandez is said to have died poor whilst living in a trailer park in Long beach CA in the early 1980's. The guitars he had not sold yet and the ones he was working on were lost in a fire in the trailer park shortly after his death. A Los Angeles County Sheriffs incident report states that an investigation into the fire showed evidence that personal property was removed from Fernandez' trailer after his passing, but the investigation was dropped as there were no leads into the possible theft. Arson was suspected.
.
There was once a homeless american guy in Sanlucar trying to sell one because he needed a bus ticket. CIA was after him. THE guitar used to belong to Paco de Lucia he claimed, and it was really beat up. I was going to buy it but it smelled bad.
RE: Most aggressive flamenco guitar? (in reply to estebanana)
... In the period after WWII a few of these guitars, it is rumored, were taken by scientists from Los Alamos to a hidden place in the badlands of New Mexico where they were studied and used to train and develop an elite corps of the worlds most aggressive musicians. These rhythm warriors are, it is rumored, able to cause crippling damage to the motivation and personality structure of even the most stable humans. They are the only people capable of safely handling these most aggressive Fernandez guitars.
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Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
RE: Most aggressive flamenco guitar? (in reply to estebanana)
quote:
only a few of the instruments from that period survive and they are secretly held in private collections and used as bargaining chips between very exclusive collectors. You'll never get to see one, much less play one.
What has not been disclosed until very recently is that a few of Fernandez's guitars are held in the private collections of members of the Illuminati, not for the admiration of guitar aficionados, but as adjunct instruments to be used when they make the move toward world domination. The Illuminati, of course, are deeply embedded in the Council on Foreign Relations, the Trilateral Commission, and other seemingly benign organizations. Nevertheless, as they have for centuries, the benign exterior camouflages the real intentions of the Illuminati and their use of Fernandez's guitars to reach their nefarious goals.
Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white, With the name of the late deceased, And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here, Who tried to hustle the East."
RE: Most aggressive flamenco guitar? (in reply to eccullen)
... In 1994, I travelled to Brussels for business. After a long and rather dissapointing day (the Czechs had refused to sign the exit clause of the contract we were negotiating, which meant that we were back to square one), I dragged my weary feet down to a small pub just outside of the international quarters of the city. I got to talking with a man at the bar. After a few glasses of scotch, he opened up. He worked for Interpol, or at least he used to. He said that they had been tracking Fernandez guitars for decades, that they would appear right before almost every major conflict since WWII only to vanish into thin air right after. In 1991, he heard that a Fernando Santez guitar had appeared on the black market in Martuni, a small town between Azerbaijan and Armenia. The name sounded eerily similar to Santos Fernandez so he decided to investigate on the ground. When he arrived, the guitar was gone, apparently confiscated by obscure FSB operatives, and the entire Nagorno-Karabakh region had just collapsed into another wave of violence. He decided to widen the scope of his investigation and look into the enigmatic Fernando Santez. At first, it was just rumours: a kora had been found in 1990 in North Mali right before the outbreak of the Tuareg rebellion. The locals said it bore the name Fernando Santez. Later that year, a tin ramkie was said to have been sold near Kagitumba, in Northern Rwanda. The name Fernando Santez had been scratched into the tin can with a screwdriver. The instrument was lost during the RPF invasion. This wasn't much to go on, but the man kept on investigating. The signs started to point to Central and Eastern Europe: a Santez guitar appeared in Kijevo, Croatia, in late 1991. Another appeared in Koretin, Kosovo, in 1992. And yet another in a small mountain village in Abkhazia, still in 1992. A few months before I met him, he had gone back to Nagorno-Karabakh, on a hunch. While in the Maldakert district, he heard of an incident that had occured at the Gandzasar monastery. The relics of St. John the Baptist had burst into flames upon the arrival of a wandering Spanish monk. The man went straight to the monastery. The abbot who led the cinobeum told him about the incident, and about the arrival and abrupt departure of the wandering Spanish monk: he had introduced himself as Sancho and carried a guitar on his back. The trail had since gone cold, but our man wasn't giving up. Interpol had dropped the case for lack of evidence. And he was now digging his way down a rabbit-hole of debt to pursue his obsession for Fernando Santez/Santos Fernandez on his own money. He had lost his job at Interpol, and his relationship with his wife was on the brink. The price of obsession. I paid for his drinks and got up to leave. Before I was out the door, he said: you know, they never found the body. -What body? I asked. -Back in the trailer park, in Long Beach, after the fire where they said Santos Fernandez died. They never found the body.
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RE: Most aggressive flamenco guitar? (in reply to estebanana)
I just sold two of my three Fernandez guitars to the White House. They made me an offer I couldn't refuse.
The stated purpose of the Administration's purchase was to use the instruments to establish world peace, dealing especially with the Near East, the Far East and Russia.
The Washington Post reports that there are now two factions in the White House warring over how to use the instruments. But apparently no one there knows how to play the guitar....and all the pro players they have contacted have refused to participate.
Posts: 3458
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
RE: Most aggressive flamenco guitar? (in reply to BarkellWH)
It is said that the guitars made by Santos Fernandez were based on a guitar made in the late 19th century by a mysterious and little-known luthier who was also infamous as a "brujo" or sorcerer, according to villagers at the time. It was not just the physical design of the guitar that gave it its power, but the chants and incantations that were recited at critical junctures in its development. Apparently, Santos Fernandez obtained a manuscript that detailed both the design and the chants and incantations required, and he learned them well. The manuscript has disappeared, but the potentially evil effects of the guitars remain.
The guitars must be handled and played according to strict rules, in order to keep their magical properties benign. If a guitar is mishandled, it is said that the guitar can literally turn on its owner. Something similar exists with regard to the keris, the wavy-bladed dagger found in Java, Bali, and throughout the Malay Archipelago. Empus (Keris makers) can embed magical properties in the keris, and it must be handled according to strict rules. If one draws a keris from its sheath, it must be done above the head; never at waist or chest height. Kerises are known to have flown through the air on their own. I had a keris especially made for me by the Empu who was the official keris-maker to the Susuhunan (equivalent of Sultan) of Surakarta (Solo). He instructed me in how to handle it. I am not a superstitious type, but I adhere to the formula for handling the keris, just in case.
The reason I relate the above is because there are two recorded deaths of individuals who owned Santos Fernandez guitars. In both cases, neither of the deceased individuals had any known enemies. And in both cases death was determined to be strangulation by a guitar's "D" string used as a garrote, still wound around the deceased's throat and neck when found. In each case, a Santos Fernandez guitar was nearby, missing its "D" string. This is why it is so troubling that members of the Illuminati are in possession of such power.
Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white, With the name of the late deceased, And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here, Who tried to hustle the East."
RE: Most aggressive flamenco guitar? (in reply to BarkellWH)
Further evidence of this is that if you take the numerical value of each letter in the word "Illuminati" and multiply it by the square root of the D open string's wavelength divided by the distance in light years between Earth and Alpha Centauri, it spells: "S.Fernandez".
_____________________________
"Anything you do can be fixed. What you cannot fix is the perfection of a blank page. What you cannot fix is that pristine, unsullied whiteness of a screen or a page with nothing on it—because there’s nothing there to fix."
RE: Most aggressive flamenco guitar? (in reply to mark74)
Santos Fernandez?! I just saw one of those in a pawn shop in Cayuga, Illinois not even a year ago... It was so strange, because it looked to be a flamenco guitar, but had been strung with cheap steel strings. Across the back of the guitar the 'stars and bars had been painted, the original varnish covered underneath crude red and blue paint. The soundboard was cracked and dirty, the tap-plates replaced with an ugly hummingbird scratchguard. Some buffoon had written "GIT-R-DONE" under the sound whole with a sharpie. I looked inside the guitar to see what company had manufactured this travesty. Santos Fernandez.
Santos Fernandez? I'd heard of the illustrious Santos Hernandez, but who was this? I looked up at the shopkeeper who was smoking a cigarette through a stoma in his throat, looking right at me. I made direct eye contact. He remained silent.
I again evaluated the guitar and figured it must be something some redneck had picked up in a brothel in Juarez. Santos Fernandez, I supposed, was cheap plywood better suited for running cocaine through the Texas border than the enigmatic art of flamenco. I put it down, believing myself far too clever to be hustled. If I had known then what I know now..it was only twenty-two thousand dollars.
RE: Most aggressive flamenco guitar? (in reply to BarkellWH)
quote:
What has not been disclosed until very recently is that a few of Fernandez's guitars are held in the private collections of members of the Illuminati, not for the admiration of guitar aficionados, but as adjunct instruments to be used when they make the move toward world domination. The Illuminati, of course, are deeply embedded in the Council on Foreign Relations, the Trilateral Commission, and other seemingly benign organizations. Nevertheless, as they have for centuries, the benign exterior camouflages the real intentions of the Illuminati and their use of Fernandez's guitars to reach their nefarious goals.
Bill
In my long and arduous researches of Santos Fernandez' life and works I did uncover an adjunct note stapled to the LA County Sheriffs report on the trailer park fire. It said *date: 2/6/84 Inner Harbor Trailer Park visitors sign in book recovered, checked into evidence, X-reference with Illuminati investigation pending in SLO County SD. - Lt. Flynn LACSD*
I checked with the evidence dept of LA Sheriffs and there is a whited out entry on that date in 1984 in the evidence log book. It is glaringly possible the Illuminati reference was either planted by the Illuminati to throw later researchers in the wrong direction, or that Lt. Flynn was onto a conspiracy to divert attention towards the Illuminati to keep the truth from being known about the disappearance of the last Fernandez guitars. Further digging revealed that 'Lt. Flynn' did not belong to the LACSD, but was an alias he used while infiltrating the dept. He actually worked for DARPA, which substantiates E. Cullens hypothesis of the development of a sound wave weapon.
What we really need to get to the bottom of is the Russian 'Bear Porn' ring and it's alleged operations under the Newport Harbor Art Museum sub basement and the connections between them and Iranian arms deals brokered by the Illuminati in 1986. The Fernandez guitars were rumored to have been a deal sweetener for a very rich ayatollah who was bankrolling the arms deal.
I lost the paper trail in Geneva when a private bank denied my access to a security box I had acquired the key to. I was given a false passcode by the agent who gave me the key and he is presently asking for additional money for the passcode. I can hardly blame him for bilking me for additional funds as he has a child enrolled in Yale and needs the most for tuition since the PELL grant monies have dried. My options are kidnapping and demanding the passcode as ransom, or turning states evidence on him in a South Dakota corporate dairy headquarters robbery.
I'm leaning towards kidnapping as I believe Fernandez himself would have found that amusing. I'll no doubt employ my contacts in Yale's infamous Skull and Bones club to get the job done.
RE: Most aggressive flamenco guitar? (in reply to Richard Jernigan)
quote:
I just sold two of my three Fernandez guitars to the White House. They made me an offer I couldn't refuse.
The stated purpose of the Administration's purchase was to use the instruments to establish world peace, dealing especially with the Near East, the Far East and Russia.
The Washington Post reports that there are now two factions in the White House warring over how to use the instruments. But apparently no one there knows how to play the guitar....and all the pro players they have contacted have refused to participate.
RNJ
I'm not doubting your account, but I must inquire in the interests of my research where you had the Fernandez' authenticated? To my knowledge, correct me if I am in error, but Brunoffskavich of Helsinki is the only shop in the world with the expertise to authenticate with absolute certainty.
I would be very interested to hear the in depth the provenancial account behind your Santos Fernandez acquisitions. Can you also speak about the rumors that the early Pre War Santos Fernandez guitars were or are stored in perpetuity in the Jerningan Suites Conservation Lab?
RE: Most aggressive flamenco guitar? (in reply to estebanana)
Not many people know that the ultra-aggressive sound was not innate. It was induced by means of a loudspeaker through which a loud and continuous “Grr” – the primal animal sound made by Cro-Magnon-type males, was played for several months. Experiments with “Grrr” and “Grrh” showed no significant advantage over “Grr”. Some say that these guitars have disappeared because of the threat they pose to an ordered and passive society. Several governments are working on countermeasures. Early experiments with “Shh” have proved ineffective. Power to Santos!
RE: Most aggressive flamenco guitar? (in reply to mark74)
I know for a fact that a secret agency who's identity has to remain a secret got hold of a couple of Santos Fernandez Guitars and paired them to the best rasgueado players the world has to offer, creating a very explosive combination of power in the process. It's said the very same agency used to attack their enemies with what is known as "the funniest joke in the world" but it's value for warfare was lost when the agency dude to financial cuts was forced to replace their highly specialized translators by google translate. So they came up with a new project known as "Project Mariachi".
These mariachi are used in situations were smuggling in real weapons proved impossible for one reason or the other. Once in position the rasgueado salvo fired by a single Fernandez Mariachi Player resembles the sound of a whole army of "weapons of mass destruction" to such an extent the enemy will either surrender or flee. When rumor start to spread these kind of mariachi were used and carrying a guitar in these parts of the world became to suspicious/dangerous a special team was tasked to solve that problem. Remembering the days were for personal safety each word of the "the funniest joke in the world" was translated/carried by another person (only to be recomposed/used at the front) they came up with a dismountable Santos Fernandez Guitar which components were ingeniously disguised as being (part of) objects of everyday use which could be carried unsuspiciously by 1 or more persons. To trick the metal detectors the metal frets were replaced by ivory ones since in general those area of the word did not have strict import/export rules for ivory objects like the ivory "comp" that hides the frets/nut/saddle.
Although they proved to be extremely effective the use of FMP is limited because under no condition more then 1 FMP is allowed to occupy the same hemisphere at the same moment of time because the combined power of 2 FMP's is believed to be to dangerous (science has strong suspicions the distinction of the dinosaurs was not caused by a meteoriet smashing the earth but was the result of 2 ancient and up to that moment geographically separated life forms melting together to become 1 new super species which last known descendant is said to became the better part of Santos Fernandez wood stock). Rumors said many of the so called "atomic experiments" annotated by history were in fact FMP linked and at precent day 2 or more FMP lined up in perfect alliance are believed to be the ultimate protecting shield against future alien attacks. It's said Trump showed an interest until he started to google some of the names mentioned in the top secret phone conversations he had about the subject, names like Vicente, Fernandez etc. (insiders claimed he missed the , between Vicente and Fernandez and as a result jumped to conclusions).
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RE: Most aggressive flamenco guitar? (in reply to mark74)
Before we make sarcastic remarks about this very serious topic I have to remind the gentle participants in this gathering that the legends around the Santos Fernandez guitars aggressive powers have been the subjects and plot lines of obscure books. And it has been said that the Kate Bush song 'Experiment IV' is based on the rumors of the power of the Santos Fernandez.
RE: Most aggressive flamenco guitar? (in reply to estebanana)
quote:
the subjects and plot lines of obscure books
The book "For whom the D string rings" achieved a small degree of success in 1987 in Northern Aragon. It is often confused with the 1970s erotic thriller "For whom the G string rings", which has nothing to do with Fernandez or guitars. (it was the story of gay love and death in the milieu of amateur wrestling)
_____________________________
"Anything you do can be fixed. What you cannot fix is the perfection of a blank page. What you cannot fix is that pristine, unsullied whiteness of a screen or a page with nothing on it—because there’s nothing there to fix."
RE: Most aggressive flamenco guitar? (in reply to estebanana)
Mark, Wow, you were in the presence of one of the ultra rare and mythical 'stars and bars' Fernandez guitars, and in grave danger.
These are the most aggressive of the Fernandez guitars, the ultimate. The tops are said to have been made from spruce harvested from viking ships found submerged for centuries, and brought to the surface on a moonless night. They were also known as the "Prisondoor" guitars, the back and sides made during Fernandez' U.S. period from the doors of a Spanish era New Mexican prison (reinforcing the connection with New Mexico). The stars and bars, along with other flag-based motifs, all barbarous, were typical means of disguising the instruments.
The shop owner was not what he seemed. Its fortunate you did not ask him to play the guitar. The aggressiveness of his playing would have destroyed you. If you return to the shop you will, undoubtedly, find it vacant. I suspect this shop was situated at the crossroads. You are fortunate to have survived the encounter with your mind intact.
RE: Most aggressive flamenco guitar? (in reply to mark74)
Yes the fabled 'Prison door' guitars of Santos Fernandez.
Many people think that it's merely an earthly prison that Fernandez hewed wood from to make the guitar. Prison door also refers to a dimensional door that opens into a rift in sonikete hyper space. Once the door is opened the mass of the dark energy emanating from these special Fernandez guitars sound holes can pull a human into the body cavity of the guitar. Once inside the door is closed and they are trapped inside a dimension of time and space in the overtones series of the guitar. Of course the wood is from prison doors. He bought doors from the death row cells of the CIA black site prison in Mew Mexico called El Diobbligato-
Diabolical was his art, the master of the dark guitars arts Santos Fernandez.
RE: Most aggressive flamenco guitar? (in reply to mark74)
Recent investigations show that the rare and ancient wood giving the Fernandez guitars their magic power over time was involved in numerous legends and up to now unexplained mysteries among which the bow of Odysseus (the bow itself was made of bone but one of it's string fibers was made of this super tree), it made 1 of the arrows of Robin Hood, it was part of 1 of the spartan spears used in the battle of Thermopylae, it made 1 of the a paddles of the rowing boats that challenged the Armada, a wooden pin made of this wood is the only real option to kill a vampire (forget the silver bullet since modern descendants of this species don't seem to respond to Ag anymore) and even it's combustion gases are known for it's power (it was part of the fire wood that produced the sword of Excalibur and it's combustion gases also turned out to be the secret "ingredient" of Getafix (Panoramix) "magic" potion.
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RE: Most aggressive flamenco guitar? (in reply to estebanana)
Well, the illuminati stories and such have forced me to break the silence. I am in fact in possession of one Santos Fernandez 7 string. I often talk about guitar voodoo and my family history owning guitars but I kept this a closed secret until now. Back in late 70's early 80's my father met a mysterious individual that wanted classical guitar instruction. Oddly, and nervously, after his first lesson he offered to gift my father his very strange instrument instead of cash, for this and all future lessons. My father, noticing how odd the instrument was (as you will see in video), reluctantly agreed. The student (whose name my deceased father has taken to the grave) at first claimed to be the luthier of the instrument. Later my father discover a label that had been torn out of the guitar and vacuum sealed in plastic, inside the case, which read "Santos Fernandez, Madrid/Roswell, 19....", the bottom corner having been damaged upon removal taking off the date and part of the signature. Also inside the case was, instead of a humidifier, a strange energy sphere, that I keep in the case to this day.
The mysterious student never returned for his second lesson, and my father kept the guitar ever since. Upon revisiting the instrument in my collection after developing some flamenco chops, I noticed it to be the most aggressive guitar I have ever played, not so much because of the 7th string addition, but because of the odd bridge and it's material of construction. A student of mine was once intrigued so we scraped a bit of the metallic material off to be analyzed. Turns out it is an interesting alloy but "not of this earth". I am convinced, due to the Roswell connection, the material was of the same sort found at the fabled UFO crash site. (The dry desert climate I had assumed the main reason S. Fernandez chose to assemble his best guitars there, but perhaps it was this extraterrestrial material?). Since then my research also turned up this Brunoffskavich in Helsinki. I went ahead and mailed him the vacuum sealed label for authentication, but never heard back. Sorry no photos of the label. I can share with you the video of the actual guitar here, but in order to protect my family, I will be making the video public only for a few days. I hope anybody has further information please share. I don't intend to sell this of course:
RE: Most aggressive flamenco guitar? (in reply to mark74)
Behold - I am become death.
I think the catalog raisonne' lists that particular Santos F as "The Trinity Site Guitar" Often mistaken for "La Area 51" and not to be further confused with the rare NY guitar "El Studio 51"
It finally surfaced. It was JRO that dropped it to your father. The catalog raisonne' is also very rare and only two copies exist. One happens to be kept in high mountain temple in Japan and I pilgrimaged there last year to see the holy book of death. My notes confirm this is the Trinity not the Area 51, bit an incredible discovery of a lost Santos Fernandez.
It's a miracle we can even view it being played. Although I fear you are now afflicted with the ancient curse of Imhotep of the Nile.
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RE: Most aggressive flamenco guitar? (in reply to mark74)
Ricardo's guitar, although demonstrably aggressive, appears to be one of the more innocuous instantiations of Santos Fernandez's craft.
Few know, and the less said the better, about Franco's vile plan to export a shipping container full of Sr. Fernandez's guitars to the United States, destined for the hands of America's foremost proponents of nylon-stringed guitar. But in a stroke of fortune, or perhaps, may I suggest--divine intervention--the ship named El Colorado was lost in a freak typhoon in 1972.
None of the extremely aggressive SF guitars survived, it was thought, sparing the stellar breed of American nylon-string guitarists of the time from grisly fates and opening the way for the florescence of musical genius that was documented to have occurred.
However, occasionally intact guitars, labels invariably missing due to immersion in saltwater, wash ashore. Their rasgueados continue to be amazingly aggressive, their sound raw and dangerous. Luckily, they tend to wash ashore in the rural Gulf States in the American South, where they do little harm.
RE: Most aggressive flamenco guitar? (in reply to Miguel de Maria)
quote:
-the ship named El Colorado was lost in a freak typhoon in 1972.
Yeah, there is that. But evidence points to the Illuminati Geo-Engineering Project or IGEP. Was there really a Typhoon? Or was it an illusion to create a distraction?
I'm not sure how much longer I can pass along this information. The FBI has contacted me, Flamenco Bureau of Investigation, and I've been warned to back away. I might have to hunker down for a while.
RE: Most aggressive flamenco guitar? (in reply to estebanana)
quote:
hunker down
HD. I knew it but I didn’t dare say it. The code that will activate the Santos sleepers. There is no stopping them now. Prepare for the GREAT CONDEMONIUM. You will see the first signs almost immediately. As the great ANTIGUA CASA rejuvenates itself you will see writing inside your guitars pronouncing them to be of pure gold. There will be a MIGHTY NOISE. Posts on foro flamenco will become increasingly incoherent as the madness spreads ….. although ….?
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