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What is it about a negra?
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NorCalluthier
Posts: 136
Joined: Apr. 16 2016
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 What is it about a negra?
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Hello All,
After many years of experimenting, teaching guitar making, and occasionally building an instrument, I've decided to get serious about producing.
I've always built and played cypress flamencas, but with the interest in flamenca negras, I've made one, and am just about to string it up. It's a bear-claw Euro spruce top and East Indian rosewood back and sides guitar, with Planetary Pegs. The top is 30 something years old!
So, what do you look for in a negra that you don't find in a blanca?
Cheers,
Brian Burns
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Date Apr. 9 2017 16:09:35
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etta
Posts: 342
Joined: Jan. 20 2010
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RE: What is it about a negra? (in reply to NorCalluthier)
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Hello Brian; I really admire your work and the good advise you have given me in the past. About a negra; it may have a fuller, possibly deeper sound. But I have negras that sound more like blancas and the reverse. Many builders built negras with greater body thickness and less taper toward the upper bouts; this would seem to allow for a deeper, more bass focused presence. Generally the attack on the blanca is faster because of less body depth (among other reasons). I am tempted to say that if two guitars, a blanca and a negra, are built to the same body dimensions, similar top graduations, etc. they will likely sound very similar, not accounting for the variations in wood grain of each top. These are just generalizations; I have a cedar top Brazilian that is as flamenco bright, fast and punchy as any blanca I ever heard. It was made in Mill Valley, from a guy who learned from you, so that may give you a clue. Jack
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Date Apr. 9 2017 16:29:52
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estebanana
Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
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RE: What is it about a negra? (in reply to Ricardo)
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quote:
I quote paco from Guitar magazine April 1976 cover story:
"I play Sobrinos de Esteso. Something in between classical and flamenco. Flamenco guitars are too soft, I like the guitar to have more depth, be more profound".... obviously he is talking about negra vs blanca. I have seen him use blanca on stage accompanying cante only , in the 1970's. Of course in the studio he would use blancas on occasion until his final recording.
Ricardo
Guitar magazines are silly. When i was in school I had a tutorial with a great teacher, he visited my studio and gave me a critique. Sometime during the talk he saw an Art Forum magazine on my desk. Without stopping with his main idea was, he picked it up and threw it across the room to the floor, he said "This is bullsh*t."
He was right. Twenty five years later I saw him at Christmas and showed him a guitar and we went to lunch. There were further teachable moments even during our visit.
Anyway, what about maple? What about Myrtle, Palo Escrito, Black Acacia, Koa, what a but half dozen other woods?
It's untrue that any of these woods are more profound than the others, and magazines push simplistic narratives to sell issues. Does the tree grow up in certain neighborhood and declare itself more profound? Did the tree go Harvard or the Sorbonne or Tokyo University and is thus more educated and speaks better?
Hmm, Rosewood vs. Cypress is an old binary opposition comparison. It never goes anywhere significant because the we have Maple, the third option, and after maple about a dozen likely woods to choose from.
_____________________________
https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
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Date Apr. 10 2017 2:41:39
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NorCalluthier
Posts: 136
Joined: Apr. 16 2016
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RE: What is it about a negra? (in reply to NorCalluthier)
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Hello Rob,
I too am curious about that guitar that does everything pretty well. could you describe its qualities?
Since you bought your first instrument in 1960, you must be about my age---77--- and my tastes have certainly changed a lot over the years.
I bought my first good instrument in 1963, if I remember rightly. It was an Arcangel blanca, actually made by Marcelo Barbero Hijo under Arcangel's direction. It was certainly a lot heavier than Chris Carnes' Barbero that I played a couple of years later.
By the mid 1970's I still wanted a guitar that "pinned back your ears", and built a spruce and maple guitar to the same plantilla as the Arcangel, and the same 66cm string length.
It took the better part of four years of beating on that thing to get it to start sounding musical. It ended up being a well respected instrument, but by that time I was mellowing, and wanted something like Freddie Mejia's old Domingo Esteso!
When I resumed lutherie in 1993 I built my first 65cm scale length instrument. I liked it so much better than the 66cm one that I built alongside it, that I've made only 65cm ones ever since.
Cheers,
Brian
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Date Apr. 11 2017 16:59:48
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constructordeguitarras
Posts: 1674
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA
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RE: What is it about a negra? (in reply to NorCalluthier)
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To me, a blanca (cypress back and sides), a negra, and a classical guitar are generally distinct.
The soundboards of traditional flamenco guitars, as opposed to classical guitars, are either thinner, or braced more lightly--or both--which gives the sound of flamenco guitars more of a rough, raw, raspy character. Often the backs and sides of flamenco guitars are also thinner, though not in the case of mine. I use spruce almost exclusively for soundboards.
Although I am afraid that talking about sound quality may be like dancing about architecture, I think a proper flamenca blanca has low sustain and what used to be called a "tinny" tone--less full and round, more fundamental, I suppose, and somewhat rough around the edges. The sound of an Indian rosewood negra is close to that of a blanca, but with more depth. I find that other rosewoods, such as Bolivian (Santos) or Brazilian, give a mellower, more refined sound, as does hard maple.
Classical guitars have more sustain and projection--more like a piano, perhaps. My classical guitars sound totally different from my flamenco guitars. And I keep the same body depth and plantilla for all my guitars. Currently the differences between my classicals and flamencos are the soundboard bracing--including the biggest brace, the bridge (and thus neck angle); the scale lengths (650 mm for classicals and 656 for flamencos, generally); and that I use a mahogany heel block for classicals, which I find adds sustain to an otherwise cedro neck.
_____________________________
Ethan Deutsch
www.edluthier.com
www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars
www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.
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Date Apr. 11 2017 23:40:13
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