Ribot Y Al Caniz inspired guitar-Cedar, Rosewood, Hinoki

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estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

Ribot Y Al Caniz inspired guitar-Ced...

I'm making a guitar inspired by Miguel Llobet's Ribot y Alcaniz couch guitar. The one Llobet played when he was hanging around the house moping. The plantilla of that guitar is small and narrow in the lower bout. I'll post a photo of it soon.

The one I'm making is not a copy, but a loose interpretation with my own bracing ideas and a really ****ty rosette sticker. ARE YOU LISTENING RICARDO?

The back will be four piece Hinoki, the top Western Red Cedar, ribs rosewood, scale 655. You're gonna hate it

You're gonna hate it.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 26 2016 13:01:03

jshelton5040

Posts: 1500
Joined: Jan. 17 2005

RE: Something you're going to really... (in reply to estebanana)

It's lovely and a brilliant concept. One of your best efforts

.

Btw, we're working on our first couple of double tops. I've already destroyed a beautiful cedar top with rosette inlayed trying to rout the cavity for the nomex. This is definitely a learning experience and hard on an aging brain.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 26 2016 14:10:05

RobJe

Posts: 731
Joined: Dec. 16 2006
From: UK

RE: Something you're going to really... (in reply to estebanana)

In praise of being “small and narrow in the lower bout” …………

It is also good for guitars. I have played several and owned one. They all surprised me by their clarity and projection. Everybody should have one of these. Mine travelled by train and boat from Barcelona to London, journeyed all round London in the 60s on the platform of a Vespa scooter between my knees and spent 6 months in Rio with my son who became known there as “the man with the nice guitar”.

Slim guitars like this were not uncommon up to the middle of the 20th century. My little 1960 guitar came from Casa Parramón in Barcelona. Although sold as “new” it almost certainly wasn’t. It had a new cheap back, a perspiration stain under the varnish and evidence of replacement of a couple of frets. Ramón Parramón Castany (d.1955) opened his workshop in 1908 but from 1921 onwards all the instruments were made by Jacinto Pinto (d. 1956). Casa Parramón now buy in standard looking guitars from somewhere but my slim beauty was unlike anything else they had at the time.

Rob

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 27 2016 18:45:29

constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1676
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: Something you're going to really... (in reply to estebanana)

Stephen--

I think the plantilla looks great and I like 4-piece backs like that--I've made a few. The whole design looks like fun. Here's to moping about!

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www.edluthier.com
www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars
www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 27 2016 19:36:05

Ricardo

Posts: 14806
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Something you're going to really... (in reply to estebanana)

Oh god that "rosette" or....what is that THING??!?!?!?!?!?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 27 2016 22:02:28

HemeolaMan

Posts: 1514
Joined: Jul. 13 2007
From: Chicago

RE: Something you're going to really... (in reply to estebanana)

I dig it

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 27 2016 23:15:59

Dudnote

Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 13 2007

RE: Something you're going to really... (in reply to estebanana)

That rosette!! Totally your best yet. The colours make me think it would look great next to a bowl of porridge n marmite

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tú ahora no me conoces.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 28 2016 0:20:53

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Something you're going to really... (in reply to estebanana)

This is why the project came up for me, I'm simply inspired by the photos of the Ribot y Alcaniz and of Llobet himself.

The of the braced top is showing it placed in front of a a guitar I made that is 14-5/16ths wide in the lower bouts. It hangs out a bit, you can see the binding line. The guitar inspired by the R y A is 19" long, but 13-3/8ths wide. And that material is cut out of the lower bouts and basically nowhere else. Essentially a full sized guitar with a narrow lower bout.

When John mentioned double tops I thought about the Dammann concept of giving the lower bouts wide glue blocks which in effect, impinge on the top lower bout width and effectively create a smaller activated top surface. This not a new idea in terms of cutting down top surface area, but Dammann's idea od doing it inside the guitar yet keeping a fuller plantilla is a newer concept....unless you count the guitar inside a guitar style that John also builds and that we have historical models of built by the Ramirez shop when Santos was the foreman.

That is a lot to take in. What I'm getting at is there are a few ways to utilize the idea of reducing the surface area of the top while still maintaining more or less the same amount of air in the box- and the smaller active surface area theoretically the same amount of string energy will activate less top. Hopefully resulting in more output.

So it is an aesthetic venture, but also grounded in a nice guitar energy efficiency concept.

The top is pretty thick, and the braces are pretty beefy. We'll see what my calculations render.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 28 2016 7:49:27

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Something you're going to really... (in reply to RobJe)

quote:

In praise of being “small and narrow in the lower bout” …………

It is also good for guitars. I have played several and owned one. They all surprised me by their clarity and projection. Everybody should have one of these. Mine travelled by train and boat from Barcelona to London, journeyed all round London in the 60s on the platform of a Vespa scooter between my knees and spent 6 months in Rio with my son who became known there as “the man with the nice guitar”.

Slim guitars like this were not uncommon up to the middle of the 20th century. My little 1960 guitar came from Casa Parramón in Barcelona. Although sold as “new” it almost certainly wasn’t. It had a new cheap back, a perspiration stain under the varnish and evidence of replacement of a couple of frets. Ramón Parramón Castany (d.1955) opened his workshop in 1908 but from 1921 onwards all the instruments were made by Jacinto Pinto (d. 1956). Casa Parramón now buy in standard looking guitars from somewhere but my slim beauty was unlike anything else they had at the time.

Rob

Fantastic story, I think I should change my name to Jacinto Pinto.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 28 2016 8:13:33

RobJe

Posts: 731
Joined: Dec. 16 2006
From: UK

RE: Something you're going to really... (in reply to estebanana)

Just in case it is of interest my little guitar has bouts of 356 mm and 268 mm and a not far from standard body length of 487 mm. It feels quite deep in proportion at 91-103 mm. The scale length is 645mm. Sorry I have given up eighths and sixteenths!

Rob

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 28 2016 9:11:25

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Something you're going to really... (in reply to estebanana)

It's OK my guitar maker brain has an onboard metric-/ inch converter .

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 28 2016 9:50:52

constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1676
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: Something you're going to really... (in reply to estebanana)

Stephen--

Have you found that the open harmonic bars and running the fan braces up through the upper bout makes a significant difference in sound or responsiveness? If so, can you describe it?

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www.edluthier.com
www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars
www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 28 2016 13:19:09

El Kiko

Posts: 2697
Joined: Jun. 7 2010
From: The South Ireland

RE: Something you're going to really... (in reply to Dudnote)

quote:

The colours make me think it would look great next to a bowl of porridge n marmite

Great ...you had to bring Marmite into it ... now when i see a guitar with a rosette like that it will leave a bad taste in my mouth ....

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 28 2016 15:43:39

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Something you're going to really... (in reply to estebanana)

It does indeed look like it'll be a fun little guitar to lay in bed hungover with.
Can't wait to hear what it sound like.

Why are you mad Ricardo you FINALLY got what you've been asking for!! hahaha

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 28 2016 15:48:55

heyjamesguesswhat

Posts: 9
Joined: Apr. 13 2016

RE: Something you're going to really... (in reply to estebanana)

Love that playful rosette!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 29 2016 9:25:56

HeavyWood

Posts: 37
Joined: Apr. 19 2010
From: San Antonio, TX

RE: Something you're going to really... (in reply to estebanana)

The graceful plantilla and rosette make me think 'Sleek Cat'

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 31 2016 22:17:39

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Something you're going to really... (in reply to estebanana)

The rosette is spot on arty. I love it.

The brazing looks very heavy, but I believe you have your reasons.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 1 2016 8:33:23

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Something you're going to really... (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

quote:

The brazing looks very heavy, but I believe you have your reasons.

Indeed, I'm going into new territory for a flamenco maker. I want it to sound like nothing I have made before. The top is 2.8 mili thick. We'll see what happens.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 1 2016 10:35:31

Estevan

Posts: 1936
Joined: Dec. 20 2006
From: Torontolucía

RE: Something you're going to really... (in reply to estebanana)

quote:

Fantastic story, I think I should change my name to Jacinto Pinto.

Jacinto Pinto V.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 20 2016 17:41:03

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Something you're going to really... (in reply to estebanana)

Meanwhile in the Jacinto Pinto V custom shop:

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 23 2016 8:38:28

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Something you're going to really... (in reply to estebanana)

I've finished the project. It worked out pretty well. I strung it up last week. The guitar has a clear almost 'reedy' sound, but it's not nasal.

I began it in Japan and shipped it to CA to finish it while I visit my family and friends in Oakland and San Francisco. So here I am with Stewart Port in his shop on a rainy day, working out a few details and set up points.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 10 2017 20:09:06

Joan Maher

Posts: 213
Joined: Dec. 3 2013

RE: Something you're going to really... (in reply to estebanana)

I like the rosette alot, what woods did you use in it? The bridge is also nice but great to hear what it sounds like as I am making a similar bracing pattern at the moment.

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Gracias!

Joan Josep Maher

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 11 2017 9:44:03

benros

Posts: 144
Joined: Aug. 27 2016

RE: Something you're going to really... (in reply to estebanana)

hey stephen,
interesting project. i would like to see how back and sides fit together aesthetically. could you post some back-side photos of the guitar?
greetings
ben

ps: does hinoki smell like cypress?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 12 2017 8:07:02

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Something you're going to really... (in reply to estebanana)

quote:

ps: does hinoki smell like cypress?

Similar, less "spicy" in my opinion. Maybe a hair more....floral?

Nice stuff Stephen! I'd love to hear it in action!
Your back in Cali??? Keep me posted if you make it down to LA, I've got a night on the town with your name on it!

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\m/

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 12 2017 19:21:19

pundi64

Posts: 234
Joined: Jul. 29 2016
From: Thailand

RE: Something you're going to really... (in reply to estebanana)

Great looking piece of work, I commend you on your imaginative success, and out of the box look, would like to hear a sound clip if you make one.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 12 2017 20:53:42

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Something you're going to really... (in reply to estebanana)

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 13 2017 0:41:36

benros

Posts: 144
Joined: Aug. 27 2016

RE: Something you're going to really... (in reply to estebanana)

nice!!!
thanks stephen...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 15 2017 19:16:18

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Something you're going to really... (in reply to estebanana)

I left this guitar in Oakland to be picked up by a young friend of mine who is a guitarist. Her name is Jasmine Stade the daughter of a friend of mine. I've been watching her become a guitar player since age 12.

She went to Girls Rock camp at 11-12 and formed a band with her kindergarten buddy Emmalee, they called the band Poison Apple Pie and wrote songs about chainsawing Bozo the Clown in half. Jasmine wrote the music. The two eventually went to the Oakland High School for the Performing Arts and graduated. Jasmine is now at UC Santa Cruz as a music major.

She works in the recording studios on campus and is a sound tech for the concerts of students and visiting artists. I asked her if she would take the guitar for a month or so and record with it. So soon we will have a recording of her work with Villa Lobos' guitar music and whatever other wacky stuff she comes up with. When she is into it I'll post links to the recordings.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 22 2017 20:27:23

SephardRick

Posts: 358
Joined: Apr. 11 2014

RE: Something you're going to really... (in reply to estebanana)

A fresh and cheerful design. The design makes sense now - designing it for a young music major. She'll turn some heads with it for sure.

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Rick

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 23 2017 20:10:08

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Something you're going to really... (in reply to SephardRick)

quote:

A fresh and cheerful design. The design makes sense now - designing it for a young music major. She'll turn some heads with it for sure.

I designed it for my own edification as a maker, but Jasmine was put into the seat as a test pilot. She finally sent me a recording, but I think one of her buddies in the sound recording dept put a little too much reverb to it. I asked her to send me an uncompressed unprocessed raw recording for comparison.

https://soundcloud.com/user-314584614/preludeonstephensguitar-online-audio-convertercom

I've been happy to see her recording and listening back to herself. She offered to record more and says she's learning Albeniz' 'Granada' I asked her if she had any Sor or Bach on her fingers now...
So more to come hopefully.

Jasmine recorded Villa Lobos Prelude 4 - I told her I like that she took the moving chord arpeggio section at a slower tempo than normal.

This one is still for sale, but on loan to "Jazzy J" - (her on air call name for her college radio show) for the semester.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 24 2017 4:30:36