Gerundino 1967

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Gerundino 1967

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gerundino63

Posts: 1743
Joined: Jul. 11 2003
From: The Netherlands

Gerundino 1967

A few weeks back I was able to buy an old Gerundino 1967.
It was former owned by Paco peña.
The roset is identical to the roset from some vinyl records and youtube recordings.
I like to find out if this is the specific guitar from the recordings. So if anybody can help me with the email adres from Paco Peña, I would be very happy to ask the man himself.

The guitar is in resauration now. The white golpe had some secret, (most white golpes have

The golpes are removed and a few cracks are repaired.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 27 2016 8:34:24

gerundino63

Posts: 1743
Joined: Jul. 11 2003
From: The Netherlands

RE: Gerundino 1967 (in reply to gerundino63)

Front picture

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 27 2016 8:51:44

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Gerundino 1967 (in reply to gerundino63)

I like the white golpeador. It looks very authentical.
The problem is that if we the builders put a white golpeador on our guitars, then everyone start thinking we are having secrets or hiding something.
Flamenco players are weird

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 27 2016 10:50:31

gerundino63

Posts: 1743
Joined: Jul. 11 2003
From: The Netherlands

RE: Gerundino 1967 (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

We have been here long enough to know for sure......flamenco players are weird Anders.....may next year bring you 99% where you wish for, 1% not, so you stay a tiny, slightly bit grumpy to keep you happy.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 28 2016 8:09:52

Echi

Posts: 1132
Joined: Jan. 11 2013

RE: Gerundino 1967 (in reply to gerundino63)

Paco Pena has had many Gerundino guitars throughout his career (and sold many of them too) even though in the last years he seems to play regularly a couple of Gerundinos from the beginning of the 80ies.
It's a good idea to ask him directly.
This guitar looks very nice and interesting: this must be one of the first ones with the modern headstock shape as in '66 Gerundino was still using the old shape (the same of Reyes).

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 28 2016 12:09:17

Cervantes

Posts: 503
Joined: Jun. 14 2014
From: Encinitas, CA USA

RE: Gerundino 1967 (in reply to gerundino63)

Wow you are lucky to have such a piece of history.
Now you have to play like Paco Pena to live up to the guitar.

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Ah well, there was a fantastic passion there, in my case anyway. I discovered flamenco
very early on. It grips you in a way that you can't get away - Paco Pena

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 28 2016 18:06:35

gerundino63

Posts: 1743
Joined: Jul. 11 2003
From: The Netherlands

RE: Gerundino 1967 (in reply to Cervantes)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cervantes

Wow you are lucky to have such a piece of history.
Now you have to play like Paco Pena to live up to the guitar.

I do my best

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 29 2016 9:10:27

gerundino63

Posts: 1743
Joined: Jul. 11 2003
From: The Netherlands

RE: Gerundino 1967 (in reply to gerundino63)

I spoke to Ad Rooymans yesterday, the first owner from the guitar after Paco Peña.
He told me that there was no white golpe on it before.
Here a recording with the specific guitar, a television show where Paco performed in the early days.
The show is recorded in Holland.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 30 2016 8:08:18

RobJe

Posts: 731
Joined: Dec. 16 2006
From: UK

RE: Gerundino 1967 (in reply to gerundino63)

Great to have a Gerundino from this period. I can remember getting to play one in the 60s and it was unlike any other guitar I had played - in a good way.

Although your guitar bears some resemblance to the one in the video, I am not sure that it is the same one. The guitar in the video seems to have different bridge inlay and at 1.56 it looks as if the head has square ramps suggesting a conversion from original pegs.

Enjoy your guitar!

Rob

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 30 2016 13:20:23

jshelton5040

Posts: 1500
Joined: Jan. 17 2005

RE: Gerundino 1967 (in reply to RobJe)

RobJe is correct, it's a different guitar.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 30 2016 14:33:46

gerundino63

Posts: 1743
Joined: Jul. 11 2003
From: The Netherlands

RE: Gerundino 1967 (in reply to gerundino63)

I can see what you mean. It is indeed a square ramp on the video.....complicated to get hold of it.....well, another Sherlock Holmes thing to find out.
Thanks for the help and the keen eye!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 30 2016 19:45:07

RobJe

Posts: 731
Joined: Dec. 16 2006
From: UK

RE: Gerundino 1967 (in reply to gerundino63)

Checking on flamenco-guitar.net it seems that early 60s Gerundinos had square ramps.

Rob

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 30 2016 21:59:08

Echi

Posts: 1132
Joined: Jan. 11 2013

RE: Gerundino 1967 (in reply to gerundino63)

My 2 cents is that this is the same guitar.
My guess is that someone rounded the square slots at the headstock (you can see it by how close they now are to the fretboard; and also they are as large as in the square slots). The bridge cap could have been easily glued on top of the original.
Both the modifications are copying the later models of Gerundino.
Anyways, the guitar in the video sounds great.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 15 2017 12:10:09

Ricardo

Posts: 14806
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Gerundino 1967 (in reply to Echi)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Echi

My 2 cents is that this is the same guitar.
My guess is that someone rounded the square slots at the headstock (you can see it by how close they now are to the fretboard; and also they are as large as in the square slots). The bridge cap could have been easily glued on top of the original.
Both the modifications are copying the later models of Gerundino.
Anyways, the guitar in the video sounds great.

Tie block modification or bridge replacement seems extreme....but you could be right on. My first guitar forensics I look for is the size of the 19th fret. I have been wrong with this only in the cases a refret job is done, as we saw with several guitars over at flamencoguitars for sale in barcelona. This guitar here does pass my first test, so I am leaning toward it being the same instrument as in the video as well.

Ricardo

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 15 2017 17:21:48

gerundino63

Posts: 1743
Joined: Jul. 11 2003
From: The Netherlands

RE: Gerundino 1967 (in reply to gerundino63)

Thanks a lot for the input guys....

I have to mail Paco about this.....he would remember I think....

The guitar is getting a "restauration" now....the white golpe is off, one nice crack showed up. And the surface under the golpe is worn out a bit. Too long played with a worn out golpe. ( the white golpe is placed afterwards.)
All is repaired and now it is french polished by an old duch guitarbuilder John van Gool.
Also the frets sticked out a bit because of dryness, so they get fixed too. And a new bone.
In about three or four weeks I get it back. Brand "new" and hopelfully I can and are able to play another fourty years on it.....

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 15 2017 21:35:51

Cervantes

Posts: 503
Joined: Jun. 14 2014
From: Encinitas, CA USA

RE: Gerundino 1967 (in reply to gerundino63)

Mail? Invite him over to play the guitar and see what he thinks.
Too bad there is no serial no on the label, Maybe Gerundino thought he didn't need it since he was producing so few guitars and it would make it look like it came from a factory.

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Ah well, there was a fantastic passion there, in my case anyway. I discovered flamenco
very early on. It grips you in a way that you can't get away - Paco Pena

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 18 2017 0:35:15

gerundino63

Posts: 1743
Joined: Jul. 11 2003
From: The Netherlands

RE: Gerundino 1967 (in reply to gerundino63)

Restauration is finished....

The Lutherier John van Gool did a wonderful job.
John van Gool is an old Lutherier, I know him for a long time, and he enjoyed the job.
He works at home now, in Delft, the Netherlands. Before he had for 30 years a taller.
http://www.lutherie-van-gool.nl/

Cracks repaired, new french polished top, new golpe, new bone, frets made smooth again.

Here also a picture after removal from the white golpe and the surprise crack that was under it.

The guitar will survive another 30 years or more.
I am a happy camper!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 16 2017 8:42:25

edguerin

Posts: 1589
Joined: Dec. 24 2007
From: Siegburg, Alemania

RE: Gerundino 1967 (in reply to gerundino63)

What a beaut!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 16 2017 9:07:52

gerundino63

Posts: 1743
Joined: Jul. 11 2003
From: The Netherlands

RE: Gerundino 1967 (in reply to edguerin)

I put up a "before" picture too

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 16 2017 9:26:57

BarkellWH

Posts: 3458
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: Gerundino 1967 (in reply to gerundino63)

quote:

The guitar will survive another 30 years or more. I am a happy camper!

You have a beautiful guitar and a piece of history. In my opinion flamenco guitars don't come any better than the best Gerundinos. They are the gold standard, but then I am prejudiced.

Bill

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 16 2017 13:02:07

RobJe

Posts: 731
Joined: Dec. 16 2006
From: UK

RE: Gerundino 1967 (in reply to gerundino63)

It looks good!

I am guessing that your restorer preserved as much of the original finish as possible - am I correct?

Rob

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 16 2017 14:12:50

gerundino63

Posts: 1743
Joined: Jul. 11 2003
From: The Netherlands

RE: Gerundino 1967 (in reply to gerundino63)

I do not know the exact way he works, but I assume he did

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 17 2017 13:29:48

Xavi

Posts: 68
Joined: Jul. 10 2012

RE: Gerundino 1967 (in reply to gerundino63)

Congratulations, gerundino! Beautiful guitar that I hope brings you much happiness.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 19 2017 13:59:07

gerundino63

Posts: 1743
Joined: Jul. 11 2003
From: The Netherlands

RE: Gerundino 1967 (in reply to Xavi)

Thanks Xavi,

Without a lot of money, I feel like a rich man

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 20 2017 8:40:27

Erik van Goch

Posts: 1787
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands

RE: Gerundino 1967 (in reply to gerundino63)

Lovely guitar but i'm not so sure it's the same one as in the video. Obviously one uses a rosette on various guitars and if i compare the one of your guitar to the one in the video and focus on the part were the rosette meets the neck on the bottom half of the guitar the rosette seems to be cut of at a different spot of the pattern (i can't find them on youtube but that video is an extract of a complete studio concert so way more material of that set exists which might give a better view on that specific guitar).

The guitar in your video does seem to match the one played in enclosed black and white video which most certainly is no match with your guitar.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 20 2017 14:44:21

Erik van Goch

Posts: 1787
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands

RE: Gerundino 1967 (in reply to gerundino63)

You could also check the back of the neck (which seems to be a bit worn out in the video) and some spots on the site (not sure the black spot above is part of the wood)

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 20 2017 15:00:37

yourwhathurts69

Posts: 117
Joined: Sep. 16 2009

RE: Gerundino 1967 (in reply to Erik van Goch)

Did you account for the angle of the photo and the shadow? See where the fret ends on the color image from the video? It certainly looks to me like the rosette could be in the same spot.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 20 2017 18:41:38

Erik van Goch

Posts: 1787
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands

RE: Gerundino 1967 (in reply to yourwhathurts69)

That did cross my mind and the shadow does indeed cloud judgement but i tent to believe half of the blackness is shadow and the other half is the side of the fretboard leaving only little room for the pattern to continu to the point were the 1967 one is cut. I tend to believe the guitar played in that video it is the very same guitar as played in the black and white video and that one offers a way better look and in that picture it seems to be a different cut/guitar (although the photo of the 1967 one might have some shadow there as well so it's up to Gerundino63 to compare)

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 20 2017 19:07:58

gerundino63

Posts: 1743
Joined: Jul. 11 2003
From: The Netherlands

RE: Gerundino 1967 (in reply to yourwhathurts69)

I mailed Ad Rooymans once more.
He told me a story that he always accompanied Paco if he was in Holland to his concerts.

Ad always took his own Gerundino that was also owned by Paco Peña before to the concerts.
Paco always wanted to be at 1600 hours before a show starts.
One day the Gerundino from Paco was in a very cold freezing day stored in the trunk from the car.
It was cracked terrible and unplayable. Paco took the Gerundino from Ad (owned now by me) and played the consert and also several other concerts with it.
Apperently the two Gerundino's have equal rozets.
So I am still not total sure if the Gerundino is the same as on the video, but the guitar is back from the luthier and could examin the tieblock.
On the video there are no white stripes on the tieblock as on the pictures from my guitar. Also there is not glued a piece above the old one.
So, it seems not the same guitar, but if you ever see a video recorded in Holland with the same rozet and white stripes on the tieblock, let ke know!

Thanks a lot for all your input.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 20 2017 19:31:02

Erik van Goch

Posts: 1787
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands

RE: Gerundino 1967 (in reply to gerundino63)

I knew that story from Ad which was published in Mundo Flamenco previously. I do have a 1985 video recording of Paco playing Herencia Latina together with my father Hans van Goch and Ricardo Mendeville at the popular Dutch talkshow "Tineke", being part of an interview about the brand new Paco Peña School of Flamenco Guitar of Rotterdam Conservatory. On that occasion he played my fathers 1981 Gerundino (which also belonged to Paco once) and my father is playing my 1977 Jose Ramirez.