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How to play bass for flamenco?   You are logged in as Guest
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Gabewolf

 

Posts: 67
Joined: Feb. 12 2016
From: Cleveland, Ohio

How to play bass for flamenco? 
I am mostly a guitar player but would like to include subtle bass in some flamenco recordings I've been working on. Nothing too crazy or overpowering, just to fill out the sound. I just made my bass fretless and its amazing. Has anyone here messed around with playing electric bass to flamenco? What was your approach with notes and rhythms? Thanks.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 6 2016 17:46:49
 
Dudnote

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RE: How to play bass for flamenco? (in reply to Gabewolf) 
Pass the pop corn, this is gonna be a great thread

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 6 2016 18:01:09
 
Gabewolf

 

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From: Cleveland, Ohio

RE: How to play bass for flamenco? (in reply to Dudnote) 
I would like to note that I am aware that many of you are against bass in flamenco. So if you are going to point that out, I am aware of your opinions and understand why you would be against bass. Personally, I enjoy it when I'm in the mood for some bass.

Also, I should've specified the palos that I am working on and want to add bass to: tangos, bulerias, alegrias, rumba
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 6 2016 18:18:04
 
Dudnote

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RE: How to play bass for flamenco? (in reply to Gabewolf) 
Sorry Gabewolf - no offence intended. Personally I'm not so against bass in flamenco so long as it's tasteful. Good luck on your journey!!

There's an accoustic bass in this at 3:19 that just slots into the ensemble seemlessly...


Since I don't play bass I can't really answer your question but I wonder if this thread will come up with anything other than the obvious - get the right chord, play in compas, add some embelishments here and there and don't go on an ego trip.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 6 2016 18:22:42
 
Gabewolf

 

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From: Cleveland, Ohio

RE: How to play bass for flamenco? (in reply to Dudnote) 
No offense taken! That bass is incredible, the tone fits perfectly. As a multi-instrumentalist, I am interested in how to texture music with multiple instruments. The old-school flamenco format of cante/guitar/palmas is my favorite and inspired me as a musician but when bass, cajon and maybe some oud are added it inspires me as a composer to create something.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 6 2016 18:41:06
 
Dudnote

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Joined: Nov. 13 2007
 

RE: How to play bass for flamenco? (in reply to Gabewolf) 
This might be off topic, since there is a risk that too much of this could loose the swing that defines the compas of a palo, but it's cool. To keep it flamenco you would have to be able to keep key accents of a palo in place no matter what the technique.



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 6 2016 19:15:14
 
Dudnote

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Joined: Nov. 13 2007
 

RE: How to play bass for flamenco? (in reply to Dudnote) 
Just thinking about that video, he's using a mix of P and i strokes as would a guitarist.

There are plenty of falsettas that go PiP,PiP,PiP,PiP (in triplets) - JG upload one for alegrias recently in the swap shop for example. So you could have a stack of fun with that pattern alone - even if just translating guitar falsettas to the bass.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 6 2016 20:29:24
 
AlVãl

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Joined: Oct. 20 2016
 

RE: How to play bass for flamenco? (in reply to Gabewolf) 
Personal preference would be double bass
But guess that is not what you asked
So
Short punchy notes with Farty Mids seem to be favoured from the 80's onwards - the right compression will easily emulate these tones
Some sliding harmonics
Double stops - 3rds and 7ths - use the b9 to tonic as a trill on home chord
Triads and inversions - 7th chords - ie major with extensions
Upper triad extensions agaisnt guitar voicing can sound sweet ( maybe invasive to a degree )
Ornamented arppegios
Groove
Unison lines with guitar - ie doubled Picado lines
Chord/Scale approach like a jazz player perhaps
Remate like a flamenco guitarist

Right hand wise any guitar technique your using but played lightly perhaps - the pickup
Will do the work
You could also look at using a plectrum if that's a comfortable option though the attack will be different sound wise

Guess the template was well set by Carlos Benevant and later Alain Perez
Or steal from Jaco Pastorius, Kai Eckhardt or Eberhard Weber for other approaches and sounds or anyone within modern Cuban or Brazilian music
The Dave Holland project with Pepe Habichela seems a tasty aporoach IMO
Or anything by Javier Colina ( both double bass players but play in non invasive way )

Really depends what the pieces call for I guess

If all the above fails just play the root and fifth - that can be hard enough on a Fretless :-)

Hope that helps
Best of luck
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 6 2016 23:16:19
 
estebanana

Posts: 9351
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RE: How to play bass for flamenco? (in reply to Gabewolf) 
No Bass - No Cajon. We've had enough of those shenanigans in flamenco.
No "modern toque" No pop melodies in cante.



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 7 2016 0:35:48
 
AlVãl

Posts: 73
Joined: Oct. 20 2016
 

RE: How to play bass for flamenco? (in reply to estebanana) 
Ha
So true
And Stereo recordings and editing
What is that all about ?
Someone please release a cante - guitar recording in mono with sampled vinyl scratches
Long overdue
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 7 2016 1:03:51
 
Cervantes

 

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Joined: Jun. 14 2014
From: Encinitas, CA USA

RE: How to play bass for flamenco? (in reply to Gabewolf) 


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Ah well, there was a fantastic passion there, in my case anyway. I discovered flamenco
very early on. It grips you in a way that you can't get away - Paco Pena
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 7 2016 4:19:36
 
estebanana

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RE: How to play bass for flamenco? (in reply to AlVãl) 
Stereo is OK, but no digital editing. Must be only tape splicing.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 7 2016 5:22:43
 
estebanana

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RE: How to play bass for flamenco? (in reply to Gabewolf) 
I must say I'm disappointed in this thread for its lack of a heated and vituperative discourse.

Come on fellas we can do better than this.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 8 2016 1:49:06
 
Dudnote

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RE: How to play bass for flamenco? (in reply to estebanana) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: estebanana
I must say I'm disappointed in this thread for its lack of a heated and vituperative discourse.

Come on fellas we can do better than this.

Perhaps you should move to the This Week's Guitar Video thread - Rombsix just posted Amos Lora playing his fantastic seguiriyas.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 8 2016 3:28:46
 
Gabewolf

 

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From: Cleveland, Ohio

RE: How to play bass for flamenco? (in reply to AlVãl) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: AlVãl

Ha
So true
And Stereo recordings and editing
What is that all about ?
Someone please release a cante - guitar recording in mono with sampled vinyl scratches
Long overdue


Guitar? Screw that! That's nuevo flamenco! The only instrument should be sound of a blacksmith's hammer.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 8 2016 4:34:08
 
Ricardo

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Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: How to play bass for flamenco? (in reply to Gabewolf) 
Play it just like a guitar but only pulgar and picado falsetas....not arpegios or rasgueados.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 8 2016 15:57:07
 
AlVãl

Posts: 73
Joined: Oct. 20 2016
 

RE: How to play bass for flamenco? (in reply to Ricardo) 
Guess this is one of the better examples on you tube
Arpeggios as a linear thing - a light Picado technique - I notice many bass players in other musics playing with a thumb rest stroke and finger free stroke - just takes up a lot of space in the music -
quote:

rasgueados

Think this guy does it sparingly and with taste
You do hear a lot of this in modern bass

https://youtu.be/C415W0AI5kQ

Gabewolf
Cutting edge indeed
Anvil - Cante - Fretless Bass
That'll go down a treat
Imagine you'd be the first person on the planet to do that
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 9 2016 2:13:22
 
at_leo_87

Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A

RE: How to play bass for flamenco? (in reply to estebanana) 
quote:

No Bass - No Cajon. We've had enough of those shenanigans in flamenco.
No "modern toque" No pop melodies in cante.


lmao

quote:

Play it just like a guitar but only pulgar and picado falsetas....not arpegios or rasgueados.


but what about the fingernails? I would imagine bass strings would eat up the fingernails really quickly.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 15 2016 17:58:07
 
Aretium

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Joined: Oct. 23 2012
 

RE: How to play bass for flamenco? (in reply to at_leo_87) 
quote:

but what about the fingernails? I would imagine bass strings would eat up the fingernails really quickly.


My brother plays the bass and he hates it when i play because of the tone i produce due to my nails. It isnt so bad but I haven't played it much.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 15 2016 19:42:17
 
rob2966

 

Posts: 19
Joined: Dec. 7 2015
 

RE: How to play bass for flamenco? (in reply to Aretium) 
Just a quick comment about bass and fingernails. So, I have been playing bass in bands (rock, funk, pop, etc) for many years. Also been playing guitar in many styles for even longer. However, I recently (last year or two) have really gotten into playing flamenco, and grew out my fingernails. It did take a bit of adjusting on the bass to play with fingernails.

1. I had to slightly reduce the highs in my EQ since the nails were brighter.
2. I already had a light touch on bass, so my nails do seem to be fine using standard stainless steel roundwound bass strings.
3. I actually find that playing with my nails instead of fingertips is faster and more accurate...who knew :).
4. When I do need that "duller" tone you get from fingertips, I play with either my thumb (easy to avoid the thumbnail) or I use the side of my fingers, almost like playing an upright (check out videos of Stanley Clarke playing to see what I mean). That position also avoids fingernails.

Now, as to the OP question about bass approach in flamenco, I don't have much opinion there. I am still very content to be immersed into the more traditional stylings of Sabicas, etc. so have never tried to play bass with flamenco myself.

Also not lucky enough to own a Jerzy Drozd bass, isn't that a requirement for "flamenco bass"

Later
Rob
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 17 2016 22:30:42
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