Amplified Flamenco/Classical

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Aretium

Posts: 277
Joined: Oct. 23 2012

Amplified Flamenco/Classical

Have they made a good amplified "nylon" guitar? They all sound terrible to my ears. Is a mic still the only good solution?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 4 2016 18:05:34

Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3023
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: Amplified Flamenco/Classical (in reply to Aretium)

Using a mic is a form of amplification. But if you're asking in terms of pickups, personally I'm not really a fan of them.

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http://www.andyculpepper.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 4 2016 18:23:12

Aretium

Posts: 277
Joined: Oct. 23 2012

RE: Amplified Flamenco/Classical (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

Yeah sorry I meant pickups. Me neither :( but its a little easier for playing with others.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 4 2016 18:31:20

Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3023
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: Amplified Flamenco/Classical (in reply to Aretium)

There are some good internal mic systems that can be installed with an endpin jack. From what I've tried (not very many) I'm partial to the LR Baggs Lyric classical.
But, there is obviously a reason why the big artists like Vicente, Tomatito etc. don't use them.

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http://www.andyculpepper.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 4 2016 18:39:17

at_leo_87

Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A

RE: Amplified Flamenco/Classical (in reply to Aretium)

I've never heard a pick up that sounded good to me.

The best option in terms of ease, convenience, and sound is the bartlett microphone, imo. It's a clip on omnidirectional microphone. Pick ups golpes really well. With a bit of EQing, it sounds pretty good and natural.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 4 2016 23:37:28

Dudnote

Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 13 2007

RE: Amplified Flamenco/Classical (in reply to at_leo_87)

quote:

ORIGINAL: at_leo_87

I've never heard a pick up that sounded good to me.

The best option in terms of ease, convenience, and sound is the bartlett microphone, imo. It's a clip on omnidirectional microphone. Pick ups golpes really well. With a bit of EQing, it sounds pretty good and natural.

Would that be a good option for restaurant gigs, either solo or with a dancer?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 5 2016 0:07:05

Ricardo

Posts: 14801
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Amplified Flamenco/Classical (in reply to Aretium)

How terrible are these sounding to you?

Basically using the same type of system in both guitars, Fishman, piezo on one, piezo/mic on the other.

Ricardo

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 5 2016 12:09:42

ric

Posts: 84
Joined: Dec. 27 2010

RE: Amplified Flamenco/Classical (in reply to Aretium)

Don't forget it starts at the pickup or mic and ends at the speakers (or your ears). Proper eq is important for any sound. Guitars that are too bassey or tinny can ruin a performance. A few of our locals have a Bose PA and even though my audiophile training has me pooh-poohing the Bose company, their mini p/a sounds great. Open, airy, and very natural sounding. They are pricey, but if you have bucks, check them out.

http://www.zzounds.com/item--BOEL1COMPACT

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 10 2016 14:13:07

pundi64

Posts: 234
Joined: Jul. 29 2016
From: Thailand

RE: Amplified Flamenco/Classical (in reply to Aretium)

The only pickups I am aware of is just picking up the guitar and playing it naturally, or go to your local bar,
and finding one there, for real feel of amplification, to ones soul, a good woman.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 10 2016 21:07:51

at_leo_87

Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A

RE: Amplified Flamenco/Classical (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

How terrible are these sounding to you?

Hey Ricardo, that sounds great. Honestly, the first time pick ups sound good to me.

Did you have to modify your guitar though?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 15 2016 17:46:38

Ricardo

Posts: 14801
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Amplified Flamenco/Classical (in reply to at_leo_87)

quote:

ORIGINAL: at_leo_87

quote:

How terrible are these sounding to you?

Hey Ricardo, that sounds great. Honestly, the first time pick ups sound good to me.

Did you have to modify your guitar though?

If not already installed then yes you need to modify the guitar. It doesn't affect the acoustics of it honestly, but the point is these systems already exist in tons of guitar models. The resultant sound has more to do with your sound system and playing style.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 17 2016 10:40:04

Dudnote

Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 13 2007

RE: Amplified Flamenco/Classical (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo

quote:

ORIGINAL: at_leo_87

quote:

How terrible are these sounding to you?

Hey Ricardo, that sounds great. Honestly, the first time pick ups sound good to me.

Did you have to modify your guitar though?

If not already installed then yes you need to modify the guitar. It doesn't affect the acoustics of it honestly, but the point is these systems already exist in tons of guitar models. The resultant sound has more to do with your sound system and playing style.

I'm a bit lost about what the advantage of pickup+mic vs mic alone is. I suspect it's to do with controlling feedback. But why the combo would generate less feedback is beyond me. Or is it more about the pickup helping to avoid over amplifying background noise?

Anyone here used the Prodipe GL21clip-on mic? How does it compare to the Bartlett?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 19 2016 17:48:20

Ricardo

Posts: 14801
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Amplified Flamenco/Classical (in reply to Dudnote)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dudnote

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo

quote:

ORIGINAL: at_leo_87

quote:

How terrible are these sounding to you?

Hey Ricardo, that sounds great. Honestly, the first time pick ups sound good to me.

Did you have to modify your guitar though?

If not already installed then yes you need to modify the guitar. It doesn't affect the acoustics of it honestly, but the point is these systems already exist in tons of guitar models. The resultant sound has more to do with your sound system and playing style.

I'm a bit lost about what the advantage of pickup+mic vs mic alone is. I suspect it's to do with controlling feedback. But why the combo would generate less feedback is beyond me. Or is it more about the pickup helping to avoid over amplifying background noise?

Anyone here used the Prodipe GL21clip-on mic? How does it compare to the Bartlett?

The piezo undersandle will get you ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE...more volume before any sort of feedback issue. Mics are always limited by your speaker placement, room, other instruments, etc. The advantages of proBlend thing are many...1. You have onboard control to fix issues in the musical moment. Flick of a phase switch or slide of a fader can save the day. 2. You can balance the sound as needed...more mic used for quieter environment where you can get away with more natural sound of the guitar, vs extreme noise environment where you require more pickup signal to be heard. The blending of the two signals is getting the best of both worlds that you would ever be able to achieve otherwise under the exact same perfoming conditions.

Enjoy your clip on mics and such, someone might be able to actually hear you.

The main point is the piezo is NOT SO BAD sounding for many reasons.

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CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 19 2016 22:37:13

Dudnote

Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 13 2007

RE: Amplified Flamenco/Classical (in reply to Ricardo)

Thanks Ricardo. That clears things up really clearly.

This guy seems to think clipons are the bees knees - but I guess his noisy restraunt gig days are long behind him.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 19 2016 22:49:54

Ricardo

Posts: 14801
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Amplified Flamenco/Classical (in reply to Dudnote)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dudnote

Thanks Ricardo. That clears things up really clearly.

This guy seems to think clipons are the bees knees - but I guess his noisy restraunt gig days are long behind him.

These mics are very sensitive, like recording mics. They can work great if you have optimal stage conditions. You don't get to "use" the mic as we do with one on the stand (leaning in for more full sound, pulling back for thinner quieter sound when needed), but you certainly get a "natural" sound. The problem for me with these mics, is the cartioid they use will pick up or bleed near by sound. I could hear my own breathing via nose when these mics are made hot enough. I think the goose neck thing, the true innovation here, can work better with a more focused cartioid type (such as Beta 87A type thing), but at the end of they day it is still no comparison volume wise to what you can achieve with a piezo.

Ricardo

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CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 20 2016 5:37:38

Morante

Posts: 2179
Joined: Nov. 21 2010

RE: Amplified Flamenco/Classical (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

but at the end of they day it is still no comparison volume wise to what you can achieve with a piezo.

In Spain they use microphones for everything, small venues, big venues, open air etc. but with a good PA. The volume can be incredible: I once heard Vicente in a big theatre and had to put my fingers in my ears. Now I go to all events with earplugs.

This would suggest that the real problem lies with the amplification.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 20 2016 11:30:17

Dudnote

Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 13 2007

RE: Amplified Flamenco/Classical (in reply to Morante)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Morante

quote:

but at the end of they day it is still no comparison volume wise to what you can achieve with a piezo.

In Spain they use microphones for everything, small venues, big venues, open air etc. but with a good PA. The volume can be incredible: I once heard Vicente in a big theatre and had to put my fingers in my ears. Now I go to all events with earplugs.

This would suggest that the real problem lies with the amplification.

Amplification or speaker/mic positioning? Presumably the monitors are not being cranked to 11.

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tú ahora no me conoces.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 20 2016 12:01:15

Ricardo

Posts: 14801
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Amplified Flamenco/Classical (in reply to Morante)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Morante

quote:

but at the end of they day it is still no comparison volume wise to what you can achieve with a piezo.

In Spain they use microphones for everything, small venues, big venues, open air etc. but with a good PA. The volume can be incredible: I once heard Vicente in a big theatre and had to put my fingers in my ears. Now I go to all events with earplugs.

This would suggest that the real problem lies with the amplification.

Vicente had feedback EVERYTIME I ever saw him perform. The guitarist for Alejandro Sanz uses piezo (arena size venues).

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 20 2016 19:44:34