Relief in fretboard

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Relief in fretboard

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Vince

Posts: 141
Joined: Oct. 21 2012
From: Germany

Relief in fretboard

Maybe this is a stupid question.
I build all my guitars without a relief in the fretboard.
This works for me and all my customers up to now.

Now a client will have a relief in his guitar.
How do you manage the fret leveling with a relief?
Do you use a jig for string tension simulation?

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Vince
http://www.gitarrenbau-held.de/

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 19 2016 17:00:11

Stephen Eden

Posts: 914
Joined: Apr. 12 2008
From: UK

RE: Relief in fretboard (in reply to Vince)

Hey Vince usually the tension of the strings is enough to add relief into a flat planed finger board. I would usually only add relief if the neck is so stiff that it doesn't move forward and that requires a refret.

Anyway you could create a curved block to the same curve of your fingerboard. Use that to do the initial level with sand paper stuck to it. Then crown and use a fret rocker to make sure there are no remaining high frets.

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Classical and Flamenco Guitars www.EdenGuitars.co.uk

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 20 2016 7:47:40

constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1674
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: Relief in fretboard (in reply to Vince)

I use a flat maple block that is about 15 cm long with 600-grit sandpaper taped around three faces. It is short enough--and the relief in the fingerboard is slight enough--for it to hit the tops of all the frets. I do this as more of a check than because they actually need leveling. Then I re-crown the frets with 600 grit to get rid of the shininess.

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Ethan Deutsch
www.edluthier.com
www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars
www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 20 2016 13:44:18

Vince

Posts: 141
Joined: Oct. 21 2012
From: Germany

RE: Relief in fretboard (in reply to Vince)

Sometimes the things are simpler than I thought.
This is more or less the same thing I usually make.
Up to now I never had any problems with buzzing at my guitars!
Thank you guys for your reply!

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Vince
http://www.gitarrenbau-held.de/

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 20 2016 18:32:29

pundi64

Posts: 234
Joined: Jul. 29 2016
From: Thailand

RE: Relief in fretboard (in reply to Vince)

Here might be an answer your looking for, go to this website joseredguitars.com scroll down the right hand side of his menu,
towards the bottom, you'll see Intonation & Compensation he gives a pretty interesting description of his work.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 21 2016 0:59:04

Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3023
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: Relief in fretboard (in reply to Vince)

Yes the string tension is normally enough to pull up a little relief unless you're using pretty heavy duty neck reinforcement or a very thick neck. I'm guessing your situation is one of those two. On my classical guitars I've actually had very good results with building in a slight negative relief so that the strings pull it up to flat. Might try it on a flamenco too.

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http://www.andyculpepper.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 21 2016 1:28:07

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Relief in fretboard (in reply to Vince)

quote:

Up to now I never had any problems with buzzing at my guitars!

It will come. There will always be a costumer wanting a to low action and then whatever guitar will buzz. You can also be so lucky that you find one of these players that can make all guitars buzz nevermind setup and strings.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 26 2016 6:54:15

Echi

Posts: 1132
Joined: Jan. 11 2013

RE: Relief in fretboard (in reply to Vince)

Hi Anders, really happy to see you writing here again.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 26 2016 9:38:51

Vince

Posts: 141
Joined: Oct. 21 2012
From: Germany

RE: Relief in fretboard (in reply to Vince)

Nice to hear from you Anders!!

Every Guitar and every Costumer is a new challenge for the luthier!
But you are right Anders, I am lucky. I am not a full time luthier and I can choose my customers by myself without financial pressure.

I hope i can read more posts from you in the future again!

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Vince
http://www.gitarrenbau-held.de/

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 26 2016 10:00:21

Ricardo

Posts: 14801
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Relief in fretboard (in reply to Vince)

quote:

Vince

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vince

Maybe this is a stupid question.
I build all my guitars without a relief in the fretboard.
This works for me and all my customers up to now.

Now a client will have a relief in his guitar.
How do you manage the fret leveling with a relief?
Do you use a jig for string tension simulation?

As a player that is an odd thing to request. He or she might just want the neck angle up such that you can achieve the super low as possible bridge set up with minimal buzz. I would get clarification before trying to do as some have suggested. Also in my mind, would love to know what everybodies actual bridge height is when they describe such procedures. For example...can Andy do the negative relief thing such that the neck is pulled straight by strings tension, then still achieve 7mm at the bridge? (I know he said classical guitars, just wondering how it's possible, in my mind I am envisioning like a 15mm high bridge LOL)

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 26 2016 11:53:51

Echi

Posts: 1132
Joined: Jan. 11 2013

RE: Relief in fretboard (in reply to Vince)

All the guitars I have have string action at the bridge between 7 and 8 mm.
It's by chance, I didn't check before buying them but it's just a matter of fact that I found them very comfortable for the right hand.
7 mm is very good when the top is stiff but can be bad if the top pulsacion is low.
I don't think it's possible to have flat or negative neck angle and a low bridge action but shaving the fretboard a lot.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 26 2016 13:16:12

constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1674
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: Relief in fretboard (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

He or she might just want the neck angle up such that you can achieve the super low as possible bridge set up with minimal buzz.

The string height required at the bridge (for a given left-hand action) can indeed be varied by varying the neck angle. However, this has nothing to do with minimizing buzz. When a string vibrates, it is no longer straight, so it tends to come closer to the fingerboard, especially in the middle, which can cause buzzing if the action is low. The cure for this is relief--whether carved into the frets or fingerboard, or achieved by bending the neck under string tension.

I make my flamenco guitars so that, with a string height of about 2.7 mm at the 12th fret, the string height at the bridge is about 8 mm (about a sixteenth of an inch of bone showing above a quarter-inch high bridge wood). With so little margin for adjustment in such a setup, if a neck warped in the future it might become impossible to keep the action low. Therefore I use pultruded carbon-fiber neck reinforcement.

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Ethan Deutsch
www.edluthier.com
www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars
www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 26 2016 13:31:03

Tom Blackshear

Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008

RE: Relief in fretboard (in reply to constructordeguitarras)

quote:

I make my flamenco guitars so that, with a string height of about 2.7 mm at the 12th fret, the string height at the bridge is about 8 mm (about a sixteenth of an inch of bone showing above a quarter-inch high bridge wood). With so little margin for adjustment in such a setup, if a neck warped in the future it might become impossible to keep the action low. Therefore I use proltruded carbon-fiber neck reinforcement.

I agree with this ideal but I find that not all guitars can be set to an exact measurement due to their different top tensions; since to find the balance in tone does have its different top graduation techniques, and this will effect the play-ability as well as tonal out-put.

This is not to say that there is not a happy medium but that there should be enough saddle height to lower later on when the top hardens up.

But I understand that you have a set way to make your guitars work, so I don't argue with you about that.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 26 2016 20:53:20