Morao Condes

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Morao Condes

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orsonw

Posts: 1934
Joined: Jul. 4 2009
From: London

Morao Condes

**NERD ALERT**

Juan Morao 1

Vda. y Sobrinos de Domingo Esteso 1964

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 21 2016 16:11:01

orsonw

Posts: 1934
Joined: Jul. 4 2009
From: London

RE: Morao Condes (in reply to orsonw)

Moraito (Juan Morao's son) with the same guitar.

Vda. y Sobrinos de Domingo Esteso 1964

More details here.
http://www.flamencoguitarsforsale.net/es/guitarras-flamencas/guitarras-especiales/conde-moraito-64.html

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 21 2016 16:15:46

orsonw

Posts: 1934
Joined: Jul. 4 2009
From: London

RE: Morao Condes (in reply to orsonw)

Juan Morao 2

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 21 2016 16:18:59

orsonw

Posts: 1934
Joined: Jul. 4 2009
From: London

RE: Morao Condes (in reply to orsonw)

Moraito with the same guitar.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 21 2016 16:21:45

orsonw

Posts: 1934
Joined: Jul. 4 2009
From: London

RE: Morao Condes (in reply to orsonw)

Manuel Morao

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 21 2016 16:24:21

orsonw

Posts: 1934
Joined: Jul. 4 2009
From: London

RE: Morao Condes (in reply to orsonw)

Pepe del Morao (grandson of Manuel Morao) with the same guitar.

at 14.40

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 21 2016 16:26:29

Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3023
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: Morao Condes (in reply to orsonw)

So the top one sold, the bottom one stayed in the family?
I remember when that one went up for sale, wishing I had $35,000 even more than usual.

_____________________________

Andy Culpepper, luthier
http://www.andyculpepper.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 22 2016 0:54:17

Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3023
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: Morao Condes (in reply to orsonw)

The more I look, are you sure those rosettes match up? The border around the tile element looks wider in the bottom two pictures.

_____________________________

Andy Culpepper, luthier
http://www.andyculpepper.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 22 2016 0:58:06

orsonw

Posts: 1934
Joined: Jul. 4 2009
From: London

RE: Morao Condes (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

quote:

So the top one sold, the bottom one stayed in the family?

I'm not sure that it was ever really for sale.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 22 2016 8:09:14

orsonw

Posts: 1934
Joined: Jul. 4 2009
From: London

RE: Morao Condes (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

quote:

The more I look, are you sure those rosettes match up? The border around the tile element looks wider in the bottom two pictures.

I am only judging based on these low resolution videos. It has been refinished so that could make a slight difference in appearance?

Juan Morao top photo, Moraito two lower photos.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 22 2016 8:22:36

Echi

Posts: 1132
Joined: Jan. 11 2013

RE: Morao Condes (in reply to orsonw)

For what is worth I have a '64 Conde which is the twin of that at the top page. Mine has back and sides in Brazilian rosewood though.
It's not really in a good shape, in these days I'm making a new fretboard and refinishing the top of the guitar.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 22 2016 8:50:19

Kiko_Roca

Posts: 82
Joined: Apr. 25 2016
From: Midwest, USA

RE: Morao Condes (in reply to orsonw)

NOt sure I understand. All you saying all of these posts are the same guitar? Looks like several different guitars based on the rosettes - 5 mayber, at least 3 or 4. Especially the zigzag on the bottom pic of the first post doesn't match with the pic right above it to me.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 22 2016 16:19:26

Ricardo

Posts: 14801
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Morao Condes (in reply to Kiko_Roca)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kiko_Roca

NOt sure I understand. All you saying all of these posts are the same guitar? Looks like several different guitars based on the rosettes - 5 mayber, at least 3 or 4. Especially the zigzag on the bottom pic of the first post doesn't match with the pic right above it to me.

He is just pointing out that 3 instruments from the history stayed in the family until recent times, except one which was sold. And regarding that it was discussed in the past when we first become aware it was for sale, and I pointed out the same videos that is was indeed legit, as were 2 PDL, M. Sanlucar, and tomatito's guitars which were all featured. Sad to say it's probably economy that allowed this thing to happen. I have been meaning to document my observations as well regarding PDL's guitars throughout history, ever since they start popping up for sale!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 22 2016 16:54:05

orsonw

Posts: 1934
Joined: Jul. 4 2009
From: London

RE: Morao Condes (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

quote:

So the top one sold, the bottom one stayed in the family?

It's still for sale. €15,000 (seems to me like a low price for a guitar with this history.)

http://www.flamencoguitarsforsale.net/es/guitarras-flamencas/guitarras-especiales/conde-moraito-64.html

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 22 2016 22:40:38

minorthang

Posts: 222
Joined: Dec. 25 2014

RE: Morao Condes (in reply to orsonw)

lesson from moriato,

15K really aint bad,hoping it goes too a great home he passed away far too early

does anyone know if the cifra, scores are available too this tango of his :-

Moraíto Chico - Rocayisa (Tangos) ??

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 23 2016 1:53:22

orsonw

Posts: 1934
Joined: Jul. 4 2009
From: London

RE: Morao Condes (in reply to orsonw)

The guitar I have called "Juan Morao 2" earlier in this thread has been copied by Felipe Conde. Apparently it was Moraito's favourite guitar.

http://www.condehermanos.com/en/a-new-guitar-in-memory-of-the-late-maestro-moraito-chico/

http://www.flamencoguitarsforsale.net/news/1682/145/Sobrinos-de-Domingo-Estedo-1972-Moraito-Chico-Reediton/d,Noticia.html

http://www.flamencoguitarsforsale.net/es/guitarras-flamencas/nuevas/reed-moraito.html

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 5 2017 11:45:29

orsonw

Posts: 1934
Joined: Jul. 4 2009
From: London

RE: Morao Condes (in reply to orsonw)

Here's the original Sobrinos de Domingo Esteso 1972 Gravina 7.
Moraito had it converted to machinehead.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 5 2017 12:02:36

sartorius

Posts: 206
Joined: Mar. 7 2017

RE: Morao Condes (in reply to orsonw)

All these reeditions by Felipe Conde are just that: reeditions, NEVER like the original Gravina guitars.

This is just evidence he's trying to boost the legacy of the original Conde shop instead of investigating how to make new guitars that would be even better than the old ones.

THAT would be the work of a great luthier...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 5 2017 19:28:18

mark74

Posts: 690
Joined: Jan. 26 2011

RE: Morao Condes (in reply to sartorius)

But arent some of the older guitars better simply because the wood has aged and opened up from decades of world class rasguedos?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 5 2017 20:33:03

Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3023
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: Morao Condes (in reply to orsonw)

If guitars could talk. But I guess they can in a way.
Did his arm wear right through the binding on that one??

_____________________________

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http://www.andyculpepper.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 6 2017 1:57:38

sartorius

Posts: 206
Joined: Mar. 7 2017

RE: Morao Condes (in reply to mark74)

Definitely true... but a guitar just can't be the best of its class just by being played. As for dogs or cats the breeding and constant improvement to it is what counts. And there are great builders out there doing this perfect kind of job with guitars.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 6 2017 6:20:46

Echi

Posts: 1132
Joined: Jan. 11 2013

RE: Morao Condes (in reply to orsonw)

It's not that easy...
It's true though that in '72 those guitars were very different from the modern ones: different plantilla, different bracing, thickness, bridge etc.
The Morao's '72 Conde is clearly an old school Conde probably still of those with the old Barbero bracing. Very nice.
Shortly after this Conde, Faustino turned to a different model, with a larger plantilla, pitched low, with a slower transient note, more powerful and mellower on the medium frequencies etc.
So, in my opinion there are 2 different kind of "old Condes": the "very old" Morao kind Conde and the old Conde of the late seventies and eighties, which is like that of Paco, Gerardo Nunez, Pepe Abichuela, etc.
These "less-old" Condes are very very good even though less aggressive and more balanced.
From the beginning of the '90 the Felipe V shop started changing again the model to make it as it is now.

In my opinion the old Condes are often better as the project is better and they are lightly made.
Of course, some modern Condes can be very good too but they are definitely big beasts with a different sound.
An average Conde from the eighties can easily compete with a guitar of the highly praised luthiers of today.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 6 2017 7:01:16