Building a Cedar Negra

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Stephen Eden

Posts: 914
Joined: Apr. 12 2008
From: UK

Building a Cedar Negra

Hi Everyone!

I am going to be starting a Cedar top Negra with Indian Rosewood back and sides within the next week and thought I might share the process with you all.

This is my first ever 1A (so to speak) build thread. Like last time I would like to try and answer building questions with pictures. So before I start post your questions here and I will make sure I answer them in picture form.

Hope you enjoy it.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 29 2016 8:32:20

etta

Posts: 342
Joined: Jan. 20 2010

RE: Building a Cedar Negra (in reply to Stephen Eden)

to SEden: I have a cedar top Brazilian and also cedar blanca (both G.Canin) Both are very fine, but the negra is a killer, dry, loud, percussive and more blanca than the blanca; bet you will like the combo too.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 1 2016 15:01:48

Vince

Posts: 141
Joined: Oct. 21 2012
From: Germany

RE: Building a Cedar Negra (in reply to Stephen Eden)

I'm looking forward to your next post.
Exciting!

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http://www.gitarrenbau-held.de/

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 2 2016 7:29:31

Tom Blackshear

Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008

RE: Building a Cedar Negra (in reply to etta)

Just a short question....is Glenn Canin still building guitars. He bought a few rosettes from me years ago.

SEden, are you going to build the top flat or give it a slight dome?

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Tom Blackshear Guitar maker

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 6 2016 12:47:26

Stephen Eden

Posts: 914
Joined: Apr. 12 2008
From: UK

RE: Building a Cedar Negra (in reply to Stephen Eden)

Well here it is the first coming together the guitar. All of the materials meeting up for the first time.

Tom I generally used a 25' radius over the lower bout. I don't think I have ever built with a flat top come to think it.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 6 2016 15:20:38

Vince

Posts: 141
Joined: Oct. 21 2012
From: Germany

RE: Building a Cedar Negra (in reply to Stephen Eden)

SEden,
What kind of Cedar is that?
In the Photo it looks to me more like spruce!

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http://www.gitarrenbau-held.de/

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 7 2016 14:17:03

Stephen Eden

Posts: 914
Joined: Apr. 12 2008
From: UK

RE: Building a Cedar Negra (in reply to Stephen Eden)

Hey Vince, It is Western Red Cedar. I thought this was a bit darker than the stuff I have been using lately! It might just be the camera. If you compare it to the spruce billet at the bottom of the picture you should be a able to easily tell the difference.

More pictures to come soon. I am finishing 3 guitars at the moment and starting another 3 at the same time as this one. So progress will be a lot slower than you have seen from my last threads.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 8 2016 7:56:18

Tom Blackshear

Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008

RE: Building a Cedar Negra (in reply to Stephen Eden)

I like the idea of building more than one guitar at a time but I would have to totally revamp my shop to make it happen.

Cedar comes in many different shades, from dark to light color. I've used many different colors from whatever is available when I purchase wood.

Please let us see the guitars you are finishing; perhaps some sound from the batch that's being finished up now.

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Tom Blackshear Guitar maker

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 15 2016 21:33:37

Stephen Eden

Posts: 914
Joined: Apr. 12 2008
From: UK

RE: Building a Cedar Negra (in reply to Stephen Eden)

Hey Tom, working on more than one at a time is great for efficiency. It can get tiresome though doing the same job over and over again. Mainly the fine sanding at the end of a build. I find my self taking about 4 to 6 hours a guitar! It is a must though for me to be able to make a living out of it. Sure I will take a picture of the guitars I am currently finishing. I don't really do sound clips though. If you go to kent guitar classics web site you can find sound clips of my guitars being played properly. I build guitars because I love them and can't play them.

Any way I have some what forgotten about this thread in the past coupe of weeks haven't I. Here are some pictures of where I am up to. My finishing work is just about complete so the builds should get significantly faster now. I am hoping to be polishing by the end of next week.

This is a brief over of my tile making process. So the stock I cut each part from, the thicknessing process, and the end result.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 26 2016 8:05:17

Stephen Eden

Posts: 914
Joined: Apr. 12 2008
From: UK

RE: Building a Cedar Negra (in reply to Stephen Eden)

These pictures are how I prepare to/and put the rosette in. From having the tiles and banding cut, bent and put in the right order. I then put it all in dry. I level it using my drum sander of all things. I masking tape it up to take it out again add glue and put it back in.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 26 2016 8:10:42

Stephen Eden

Posts: 914
Joined: Apr. 12 2008
From: UK

RE: Building a Cedar Negra (in reply to Stephen Eden)

I fast forwarded a bit here just because I forgot to take pictures. So here is the rosette stuck in and the braces have just been glued into place ready for shaping.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 26 2016 8:13:14

Stephen Eden

Posts: 914
Joined: Apr. 12 2008
From: UK

RE: Building a Cedar Negra (in reply to Stephen Eden)

And a couple of pictures of the neck. My Neck stock comes in as 900mm long as I cut them all my self from some seriously long planks. So I separate them between 600mm for the neck and 300mm for the zoque. I carefully mark which way is up and the direction it came from. This way when I glue the zoque on the grain lines up a bit better.

I also jumped the stage of inlaying the neck support which is a 3mmx10mm piece of rosewood and glued the head veneers on! Soon to be revealed!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 26 2016 8:19:39

Tom Blackshear

Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008

RE: Building a Cedar Negra (in reply to Stephen Eden)

Super, keep those pictures coming!!

I believe that rosewood and a cedar top is very saleable.

Sorry but I have lost the patience to make my own rosettes, especially when rosette factories make them as good or better than my own

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Tom Blackshear Guitar maker

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 26 2016 14:05:07

jshelton5040

Posts: 1500
Joined: Jan. 17 2005

RE: Building a Cedar Negra (in reply to Stephen Eden)

Stephen,
Is there a reason you used spruce fan bracing instead of Red Cedar? I ask because I use Cedar fans on all my guitars even spruce tops.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 26 2016 14:32:47

Stephen Eden

Posts: 914
Joined: Apr. 12 2008
From: UK

RE: Building a Cedar Negra (in reply to Stephen Eden)

Hmmm I have never tried Cedar for bracing. It doesn't seem to be as available over here as spruce is. I guess the lightness would help. Although I find that Cedar tops for instance are not as stiff as spruce along the grain though so that would be a disadvantage. I will ask around and see if I can get some to try out.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 26 2016 15:00:11

jshelton5040

Posts: 1500
Joined: Jan. 17 2005

RE: Building a Cedar Negra (in reply to Stephen Eden)

Some people say that cedar bracing needs to be a little more stiff (taller). I'm no expert on that since it's all I've ever used. Where I live (Oregon, USA) red cedar is considered pretty much junk wood only suitable for fence posts, decking and shakes so it has always been very available. It's nice to be able to get big chunks for splitting and resawing. When Mount St. Helens blew in 1980 and enormous amount of old growth cedar was knocked down and I managed to score two whole logs. I still have many tops and several billets.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 26 2016 23:10:15

Stephen Eden

Posts: 914
Joined: Apr. 12 2008
From: UK

RE: Building a Cedar Negra (in reply to Stephen Eden)

I guess it's a similar situation with spruce over here. The shops here have tons of spruce lump wood for sale. Most of it off cuts from top processing. I use it for all of the internal bracing like back bars and even peones. I have seen cedar in some of the construction wood shop yards but it never seems as good quality. I had a sound board from some construction cedar but it was a little too floppy for my liking.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 27 2016 8:28:16

jshelton5040

Posts: 1500
Joined: Jan. 17 2005

RE: Building a Cedar Negra (in reply to Stephen Eden)

There used to be a logging museum in Portland that sadly burned down many years ago.

Among the displays were crosscuts of cedar, sitka spruce and Douglas fir logs that were incredibly large 25' to 30' in diameter. I've seen logs of cedar lying rotting on the ground in the forest that were in excess of 7' in diameter. Imagine the number of tops one could garner from a tree that size.

You're right about the variability of red cedar the density and stiffness is as variable as the color.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 27 2016 14:25:45

Stephen Eden

Posts: 914
Joined: Apr. 12 2008
From: UK

RE: Building a Cedar Negra (in reply to Stephen Eden)

Hello everyone sorry I haven't had a huge amount of time to keep this thread up to date. The guitar is just about finished after many delays due to other guitars I've had to build. I am only a week over my estimated date so I am pretty happy with that. Any way here are all of the pictures I have taken along the way up until the day I started polishing 2 weeks ago.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 6 2016 14:56:14

Stephen Eden

Posts: 914
Joined: Apr. 12 2008
From: UK

RE: Building a Cedar Negra (in reply to Stephen Eden)

The sides in and ready to glue the end block wedges and peones. Then the back ready to go

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 6 2016 14:58:30

Stephen Eden

Posts: 914
Joined: Apr. 12 2008
From: UK

RE: Building a Cedar Negra (in reply to Stephen Eden)

Whilst waiting for the back to glue I prepare the bindings and perflings.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 6 2016 15:05:25

Stephen Eden

Posts: 914
Joined: Apr. 12 2008
From: UK

RE: Building a Cedar Negra (in reply to Stephen Eden)

The guitar just out of the mold then with it's first binding and then it's last binding.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 6 2016 15:13:14

Stephen Eden

Posts: 914
Joined: Apr. 12 2008
From: UK

RE: Building a Cedar Negra (in reply to Stephen Eden)

Bindings finished and the start of the end block inlay.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 6 2016 15:20:47

Stephen Eden

Posts: 914
Joined: Apr. 12 2008
From: UK

RE: Building a Cedar Negra (in reply to Stephen Eden)

Fitting the rosewood first then cutting the mitres, then it's all done.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 6 2016 15:30:03

Stephen Eden

Posts: 914
Joined: Apr. 12 2008
From: UK

RE: Building a Cedar Negra (in reply to Stephen Eden)

I missed the gluing of the finger board procedure because I needed to get it gluing before I left the workshop that evening. Any way once the fingerboard is glued I route the excess of the neck using the edge of the fingerboard as a guide. I then plane the fingerboard to make sure the action will be the correct height and the string height at the bridge where I want it.

Also a quick shot of the bridge.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 6 2016 15:36:21

Stephen Eden

Posts: 914
Joined: Apr. 12 2008
From: UK

RE: Building a Cedar Negra (in reply to Stephen Eden)

Fitting the heel cap.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 6 2016 15:44:15

Stephen Eden

Posts: 914
Joined: Apr. 12 2008
From: UK

RE: Building a Cedar Negra (in reply to Stephen Eden)

This is the guitar with it's seal coat of shellac on it. So all ready for polishing. I will post the finished product at some point next week.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 6 2016 15:47:56

Tom Blackshear

Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008

RE: Building a Cedar Negra (in reply to Stephen Eden)

SEden,

Thank you for all of these pictures, this is great!!!

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Tom Blackshear Guitar maker

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 6 2016 18:17:31

Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Building a Cedar Negra (in reply to Tom Blackshear)

+1 for taking the time to post these photos. Looks great and very clean.

Having made "El Guitarrero" with Anders and visited Stephen Hill often in La Herradura in days gone by, I know what goes into this craft. The amount of 'handmadeness' is amazing. To the point where only the strings are manufactured (for a peg head, anyway).

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 6 2016 23:13:11