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Catch the flamenco player on Sky Arts?   You are logged in as Guest
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Blondie#2

 

Posts: 530
Joined: Sep. 14 2010
 

Catch the flamenco player on Sky Arts? 
Sky Arts (UK) has just started a new series of its Guitar Star series. Basically its a talent show type thing to find the best (Unknown) guitarist in the UK, and pits all styles against each other so you have classical, acoustic, shred metal, you name it. Winner gets a slot at one of the big UK festivals.

Judges are George Benson, Tony Visconti, and Milos the classical player.

Last night they had a flamenco player in the first heat, and he played Vicente's Tio Arango.

I can't see it on Youtube yet, but you guys have to see this, and the reaction he gets from the judges...
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 15 2016 18:27:21
 
rombsix

Posts: 7808
Joined: Jan. 11 2006
From: Beirut, Lebanon

RE: Catch the flamenco player on Sky... (in reply to Blondie#2) 
quote:

I can't see it on Youtube yet, but you guys have to see this, and the reaction he gets from the judges...


Post the video once you find it.

https://www.youtube.com/user/SkyArtsOfficial/videos

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 15 2016 18:57:14
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14806
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Catch the flamenco player on Sky... (in reply to Blondie#2) 
I'm getting irritated just thinking about it. Did the guy play well or not? That's the bottom line.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 16 2016 19:58:48
 
Blondie#2

 

Posts: 530
Joined: Sep. 14 2010
 

RE: Catch the flamenco player on Sky... (in reply to Ricardo) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo
I'm getting irritated just thinking about it. Did the guy play well or not? That's the bottom line.




Sorry for tantalising post, I really wanted to see what others here thought without giving my opinion.

But OK, let's say I was surprised by what the guy did (these are folk that have made it through the auditions and are getting massive exposure as supposedly the best guitarists in UK). Although the performance was heavily edited, it was a very approximate rendition (in terms of note accuracy/relation to the original), out of compas and the articulation throughout was not clear with several flubbed runs, missed notes and open strings hit that shouldn't. He was miked up and it may be that the TV mix was worse than what the judges were hearing in the studio, but they were like 'gosh, wow, amazing, so accurate etc'. He flubbed the rasgueado climax and George Benson was practically out of his seat with excitement.

Milos especially guilty ('he was on fire'), and then afterwards he criticises this classical player who does this (very good IMO) rendition of a tough Jorge Morel piece, and criticises him for being too fast and not accurate. It was MUCH more accurate.

IMO the judges were in no position to judge this, that's basically my point. They get guest judges on this programme at different points, why didn't they draft in a pro flamenco player, its not like we don't have any here.

It'll be on the Tube soon, I'll post it .


EDIT Its up! see what you you think: 39:50

Classical player is at 56:38
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 17 2016 8:15:55
 
Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Catch the flamenco player on Sky... (in reply to Blondie#2) 
Donde donde???

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 17 2016 13:26:18
 
Blondie#2

 

Posts: 530
Joined: Sep. 14 2010
 

RE: Catch the flamenco player on Sky... (in reply to Leñador) 
oops

Here;

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 17 2016 13:49:21
 
Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Catch the flamenco player on Sky... (in reply to Blondie#2) 
He's been playing flamenco for 14 years???
National television.....kinda shaky there.
And I get that the judges don't know flamenco but why did Milos say very clean very accurate?? Anyone can hear the flubbed notes even if you don't know what compass is.......

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 17 2016 14:33:14
 
Sr. Martins

Posts: 3079
Joined: Apr. 4 2011
 

RE: Catch the flamenco player on Sky... (in reply to Blondie#2) 
I wouldn't have done better but yeah, accurate?

Saw a few other players and by the reviews they gave them, I am not interested in watching this show. I have youtube.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 17 2016 15:09:44
 
rombsix

Posts: 7808
Joined: Jan. 11 2006
From: Beirut, Lebanon

RE: Catch the flamenco player on Sky... (in reply to Blondie#2) 
The "judging" segments seem ridiculous. Quite "professional".

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Ramzi

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 17 2016 15:25:52
 
Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Catch the flamenco player on Sky... (in reply to Blondie#2) 
He certainly did better than I would have but I wouldn't have chosen that song and I think maybe he shouldn't have either......

That picture in blurry picture BS is annoying.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 17 2016 16:58:02
 
Piwin

Posts: 3559
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RE: Catch the flamenco player on Sky... (in reply to Blondie#2) 
I thought perhaps he was nervous and that explained it.
But then I saw his audition video:


"Accurate" is not the word that comes to mind...

The whole thing at least had the merit of letting us hear George Benson try to pronounce "rasgueados".

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 17 2016 17:01:21
 
Blondie#2

 

Posts: 530
Joined: Sep. 14 2010
 

RE: Catch the flamenco player on Sky... (in reply to Blondie#2) 
I don't like to hammer the guy for having a go, playing solo on TV must be nerve wracking.

And yeah, add me to the list of people that couldn't have done better anyway but its a shame that the judges are not in a position to judge this (I'm sure they have involved Paco Pena at some point, I've seen a clip with him).

Its a very odd show, the whole premise of comparing hugely different genres is a problem to begin with IMO. One of their scouts rang me and left voicemail when they were looking for people to take part in this series, after seeing bits of series one I didn't return their call.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 17 2016 18:16:29
 
Piwin

Posts: 3559
Joined: Feb. 9 2016
 

RE: Catch the flamenco player on Sky... (in reply to Blondie#2) 
I'm torn. Either he wasn't getting any honest feedback from proper flamenco players before going on, or he was and decided it was a good idea to try anyways. Don't get me wrong, he's clearly got some technique down but it was all very sucio, as if trying to play a piece that is too hard for him.
In any event, it does take courage to go out there, but I fear having so much exposure for a performance that was only so-so isn't going to help him much career-wise...I could be wrong.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 17 2016 18:55:02
 
Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Catch the flamenco player on Sky... (in reply to Blondie#2) 
Well, if you put yourself on TV in a judgement show you should be okay to take the criticisms.

That audition tape is rough, it sounds like he's never had a teacher and is just mimicking best he can.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 17 2016 19:25:13
 
Sr. Martins

Posts: 3079
Joined: Apr. 4 2011
 

RE: Catch the flamenco player on Sky... (in reply to Leñador) 
If I didn't know what it was for I would've thought he was mocking lol

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 17 2016 19:43:48
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14806
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Catch the flamenco player on Sky... (in reply to Blondie#2) 
Both flamenco players hacked through...but while the judges appreciated the style, not knowing jack about it, they picked the classical guy that got criticized anyway.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 17 2016 22:22:16
 
Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Catch the flamenco player on Sky... (in reply to Blondie#2) 
Both? There was another one?

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 17 2016 22:53:36
 
Piwin

Posts: 3559
Joined: Feb. 9 2016
 

RE: Catch the flamenco player on Sky... (in reply to Leñador) 
quote:

Both? There was another one?


Yep. Here's the link to the other guy's performance:



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 18 2016 9:29:07

ToddK

 

Posts: 2961
Joined: Dec. 6 2004
 

RE: Catch the flamenco player on Sky... (in reply to Leñador) 
quote:

why did Milos say very clean very accurate??


He's the Yanni of classical guitar.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 19 2016 12:45:22
 
Filip

 

Posts: 403
Joined: Apr. 23 2006
From: Paris

RE: Catch the flamenco player on Sky... (in reply to Blondie#2) 
I don't know if you guys noticed (since no one mentioned this in the posts), but there is another guy playing Paco's bulerias (arround 1h01min).
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 19 2016 16:08:44
 
Piwin

Posts: 3559
Joined: Feb. 9 2016
 

RE: Catch the flamenco player on Sky... (in reply to Filip) 
Ouch where did the compas go?
Though like Benson said, "the only way to know what it's like is to jump in". The thing that worries me the most about both of them is the lack of self-awareness. They both said they felt "in the zone", "comfortable" etc. etc. I mean, how do you progress if you feel in the zone when you're miles away from the zone?

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"Anything you do can be fixed. What you cannot fix is the perfection of a blank page. What you cannot fix is that pristine, unsullied whiteness of a screen or a page with nothing on it—because there’s nothing there to fix."
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 19 2016 16:29:33
 
Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Catch the flamenco player on Sky... (in reply to Blondie#2) 
They're both exactly the same yet Milos picks on the second guy basically because of the palo he chose, Milos want pretty soft melody! Lolol
Both of them have practiced flamenco hand techniques for years but neither have used a metronome or studied compas....

What's the narrators accent??? It's like half British half American.......

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 19 2016 16:37:03
 
orsonw

Posts: 1934
Joined: Jul. 4 2009
From: London

RE: Catch the flamenco player on Sky... (in reply to Leñador) 
quote:

Both of them have practiced flamenco hand techniques for years but neither have used a metronome or studied compas....


And yet Ramon was employed as the guitarist at Los Gallos tablao in Seville 20 years ago. I have seen Ramon play, somehow he came off really badly on this tv show.

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 19 2016 17:22:47
 
Piwin

Posts: 3559
Joined: Feb. 9 2016
 

RE: Catch the flamenco player on Sky... (in reply to orsonw) 
Just watched it again. It almost looks like they edited (badly) his performance. Towards the beginning there's a section where he switches to rasgueados that sounds (and looks) almost "glued in"...
Or maybe he just really choked...
The first guitarist's performance is comparable to what he does in his other videos (recording at home) but the difference between the second guy's performance and his other videos is rather startling...not at all the same player.

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"Anything you do can be fixed. What you cannot fix is the perfection of a blank page. What you cannot fix is that pristine, unsullied whiteness of a screen or a page with nothing on it—because there’s nothing there to fix."
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 19 2016 17:28:45
 
orsonw

Posts: 1934
Joined: Jul. 4 2009
From: London

RE: Catch the flamenco player on Sky... (in reply to Leñador) 
quote:

What's the narrators accent??? It's like half British half American.


Tony Visconti from Brooklyn, maybe too much time hanging out with Bowie, Bolan etc..?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 19 2016 18:10:32
 
athrane77

Posts: 785
Joined: Feb. 6 2011
From: Reykjavik

RE: Catch the flamenco player on Sky... (in reply to Blondie#2) 
thanks orsonw for posting the videos,
Ramon Ruiz plays pretty good.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 19 2016 18:11:59
 
Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Catch the flamenco player on Sky... (in reply to Blondie#2) 
Damn, Orsons got all the answers!! Lol
Wow yeah Ramon seems pretty dang good in all these other videos, what happened??? Was it crazy editing?? I'd be so pissed if I were him.....

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 19 2016 18:33:57
 
Blondie#2

 

Posts: 530
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RE: Catch the flamenco player on Sky... (in reply to Blondie#2) 
Wow, had no idea Ramon was in this too. He's a working pro, pretty well known in the UK. I saw his group live a few years ago. He used to also sell guitars , may even have been a member here?
Nowhere near his best here and yes the editing doesn't help.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 19 2016 19:05:43
 
Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Catch the flamenco player on Sky... (in reply to Blondie#2) 
Ramon was my first teacher and had the chops. He also used to sell Bernals from Jingle in London. He is a member here but not very active.

http://www.foroflamenco.com/showProfile.asp?memid=462

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 19 2016 19:43:08
 
Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Catch the flamenco player on Sky... (in reply to Blondie#2) 
Watched more closely and the editing on Ramon's video completely ruined it. It's so smoothly edited it makes it sound like its him not knowing where he is. Again, if I were him I'd be pretty upset about it

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 19 2016 21:25:03
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