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RE: Manitas de Plata
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BarkellWH
Posts: 3458
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
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 RE: Manitas de Plata (in reply to Grisha)
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Manitas knew how to play an audience for sure. My good friend and flamenco guru Paco de Malaga once told me that when Manitas was performing, he would begin by sitting still, guitar poised, and silently looking at a point at the back of the auditorium. He would then suddenly begin playing with violent passion, as if his muse had just inspired him. It was all hokey, of course, but the audience thought they were witnessing the "primitive," inspired gypsy they imagined a flamenco guitarist to be.
I actually kind of liked Manitas. I am just speculating here, but I imagine he did not take his charisma and showmanship too seriously, and he probably knew he was not a first-rate flamenco guitarist. But he has a certain appeal that some con-men have when they good-naturedly know that you can see through them. At least I would like to think of him in that way.
Manitas died on 5 November 2014, and his obituary in the Washington Post quoted Brigitte Bardot, in an interview with Agence France Presse, as saying, "Manitas carried with him all the joie de vivre and carefree attitude of my youth.” Not a bad way to be remembered by such as la Bardot.
Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."
--Rudyard Kipling
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Date May 26 2016 20:34:07
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BarkellWH
Posts: 3458
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
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RE: Manitas de Plata (in reply to Morante)
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quote:
Manitas was a gitano francés and never claimed to a flamenco guitarist. He was also the patriarch of a very good group of gitanos franceses called the Gypsy Kings, who have never claimed to be flamenco.
Nevertheless, they are constantly criticized for something they have never claimed to be.
Sorry, Morante, but you are wrong with respect to both Manitas and the Gypsy Kings. In fact, both have presented themselves as being flamenco. As I write this I am holding in my hand a vinyl album by Manitas entitled, "Manitas de Plata, Flaming Flamenco." Produced in 1968, the notes on the back cover include, "Manitas de Plata is one of the few who can interpret the emotionally moving and fiery music called flamenco."
On July 2 and 3, 2010, the Gypsy Kings performed at Wolf Trap Park for the Performing Arts, here in the Washington, DC area. The flyer advertising their performance noted that they will perform their "Worldwide hit Bamboleo and other fiery flamenco tunes." Bamboleo???!!! Flamenco tunes???!!! Perhaps it should have read "toons." It is risible to consider Bamboleo flamenco, but that's how the Gypsy Kings were presented, and they certainly had to have approved the advertisement of their upcoming performance.
So both Manitas and the Gypsy Kings have pawned themselves off as "flamenco," even though no one with the slightest knowledge of flamenco would consider "Bamboleo" to be flamenco. Of the two, I would say Manitas's work by far has the greater claim to flamenco, but both have cashed in on the genre, claiming it as their own at one time or another.
Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."
--Rudyard Kipling
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date May 27 2016 1:30:49
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Ricardo
Posts: 14801
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
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RE: Manitas de Plata (in reply to Morante)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Morante
I think that the record companies made these claims, more than the artists.
I saw a concert of Manitas live and close and he was really impressive. It was the first time that I had seen a guitarrist use rasgeo, pulgar, picado and arpeggio in such a manner. I took up flamenco later.
Though what remained was his love of the guitar, his carismo and his sensitivity. In many ways, that I have arrived at a point where I have accompanied cantaors of the level of Rancapino, I owe a lot more to Manitas than to PDL.
I have hung out and accompanied members of gipsy kings and others of their family and town. To be honest, while they understand themselves as somewhat inferior to other andaluz flamencos, they consider themselves to be flamencos, specifically, CAMARONEROS. No joke, they actually say this out loud. They can do palmas bulerias and sing Fandangos naturales and tangos, tanguillo, not so much any 12 compas songs though they make honest attempts at siguiriya. I have played for them por bulerias and they can do palmas but not really sing it correctly. They copy the old Camaron recordings, not unlike their father Jose Reyes who obviously copied Caracol records etc. Being isolated from andalucia, the final results are filtered and skewed and evolved out of misconceptions as any foriegn group might that doesn't go to the heart to study seriously. They humbly would admit not to be as good as other flamencos, but in the case of rumba guitar, especially compas, they find many spaniards attempts at it to be laughable.
_____________________________
CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
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Date May 27 2016 17:33:21
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BarkellWH
Posts: 3458
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
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RE: Manitas de Plata (in reply to Ricardo)
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quote:
I always felt the Bridgett Manitas affair was pretty trashy. But that BB compilation is pretty impressive, I think she knew what she was doing. Probably Manitas was as nice guy, not a typical womanizer. I know grown men personally that knew him and very greatly respected him. When he died I posted this concert that I still think is very impressive. I see him as an artist that is a bit out of control, unfocused, even rumba he goes off compas. It is obvious he had misconceptions about the palos and tradition, however, if he simply had been immersed in Andalucia at a young age, there is little doubt he would have been an important tocaor. But evolution does not work that way in reality, instead he established a new genre in his clan/tribe in France.
Manitas knew how to play an audience for sure. Paco de Malaga once told me that when Manitas was performing, he would begin by sitting still, guitar poised, and silently looking at a point at the back of the auditorium. He would then suddenly begin playing with violent passion, as if his muse had just inspired him. It was all hokey, of course, but the audience thought they were witnessing the "primitive," inspired gypsy they imagined a flamenco guitarist to be.
I actually kind of liked Manitas. I am just speculating here, but I imagine he did not take his charisma and showmanship too seriously, and he probably knew he was not a first-rate flamenco guitarist. But he has a certain appeal that some con-men have when they good-naturedly know that you can see through them. At least I would like to think of him in that way.
Manitas died on 5 November 2014, and his obituary in the Washington Post quoted Brigitte Bardot, in an interview with Agence France Presse, as saying, "Manitas carried with him all the joie de vivre and carefree attitude of my youth.” Not a bad way to be remembered by such as la Bardot.
Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."
--Rudyard Kipling
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Dec. 20 2023 21:49:14
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Ricardo
Posts: 14801
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
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RE: Manitas de Plata (in reply to BarkellWH)
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Well, anecdote is fine, and speculations, however, in the link I shared if you take the time to watch the 45 min show, everything is clearly revealed. First of all, these guys take what they are doing VERY serious, it is not a joke or entertainment show for its own sake. For them, this IS art and music, and specifically it IS flamenco. Manitas announces the last piece as “un poquito de flamenco” and hacks through his Taranta. The first solo was Granaina, bits from the maestros should be recognizeable, and he concludes with a buleria de Cadiz.  The second piece is the one where we all roll our eyes as he does a hideous mish mash of Malagueña fandango de huelva and Solea, like a bipolar pre-menstrual red-head stripper that lost her stabilizing meds, but fell head first into a bucket of cocaine. Flipping back and forth with falseta excerpts, only one or two phrases actually in compas. It is literally crazy what he is doing there….but make no mistake, it is “flamenco” in the fact where it comes from and how he is trying to express himself with it. As I said earlier, if he had the traditional elements surrounding him, directing him, disciplining him, he could have been respected by Andaluz flamencos IMO. The singer Jose Reyes is much better as a cantaor than Manitas as a tocaor, however, he never had the chance to do things right IMO. He also had to take a backseat to the guitar show, which is a shame.
_____________________________
CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Dec. 20 2023 23:08:48
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