Bone shape

Costs are rising and times are tough.
Please consider a donation to keep this
place going.

Welcome to one of the most active flamenco sites on the Internet. Guests can read most posts but if you want to participate click here to register.

This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvira, Philip John Lee, Craig Eros, Ben Woods, David Serva and Tom Blackshear who went ahead of us.

We receive 12,200 visitors a month from 200 countries and 1.7 million page impressions a year. To advertise on this site please contact us.

Bone shape

You are logged in as Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >>Discussions >>Lutherie >>

Page: [1]

Message

<< Newer Topic Older Topic >>

Filip

Posts: 403
Joined: Apr. 23 2006
From: Paris

Bone shape

Hello all,

Recently I let my guitar to a luthier to lower the action. So I have two questions about the bone:

1) I now have two bones for y guitar, one new and one original. I notice that the shape of the two is different (see the photo), one is kinda higher at one end and then towards the other end it gets lower (left on the photo), and the other is a bit higher in the middle but the same high at the ends (right). So, is there any significance regrading different shapes?

2) How important is that the bottom part of the bone fits perfectly on the bridge (i.e., no spaces between the bottom of the bone and top of the bridge)?

Cheers

Attachment (1)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 12 2016 22:39:46

BarkellWH

Posts: 3458
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: Bone shape (in reply to Filip)

Filip,

Every guitar I have owned or played had a bone with the higher end on the 6th (E) string and the lower end on the 1st (E) string.

The other bone which you state is even on both ends and higher in the middle does not appear that way to me. In looking at it closely, it seems to be a bit higher on the 6th string end than on the 1st string end. It is a close call, but that is the way I see it.

Regarding your second question, obviously the more closely the fit of the bone in the bridge slot the better.

Bill

_____________________________

And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

--Rudyard Kipling

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 13 2016 0:53:53

Vince

Posts: 141
Joined: Oct. 21 2012
From: Germany

RE: Bone shape (in reply to Filip)

Some luthiers make the bone on the d string a little higher and create a slight bow.
Anyway, the e string should set up a little bit lower than the E string.
The "relative" high point at the d string can avoid string buzzing.
I make my bone linear from low E to high e (~ 0,5-0,8mm difference).

It al depends on the guitar ( neckangle, frett job etc.)
IMO Linear bone on flat freeboards, curved bone on curved fretboards.

_____________________________

Vince
http://www.gitarrenbau-held.de/

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 14 2016 17:23:37

Stephen Eden

Posts: 914
Joined: Apr. 12 2008
From: UK

RE: Bone shape (in reply to Filip)

Vince a good way to look at rounding the bone is to compensate for the bridge flattening. I use to use flat bone all of the but have noticed that over the years they have become concaved due to the flattening of the bridge in from of the sound board.

Filip it is hard to say which bone it correct as we don't know what the action is with the bone in place.

_____________________________

Classical and Flamenco Guitars www.EdenGuitars.co.uk

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 14 2016 18:36:13

constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1676
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: Bone shape (in reply to Filip)

The saddle should be higher for the bass strings because they vibrate more widely.

I find that a curved, rather than straight, top of the saddle makes it easier, for example, if you want to bar the 2nd and 3rd strings with your index finger while leaving the first string open.

Sometimes a fingerboard will be radiused from side to side, in which case the saddle will need to be rounded more (length wise).

I have a guitar that has an under saddle pickup which I installed by routing out the center of the saddle's footprint on the bridge. I found that there was no loss of sound when the guitar is played unamplified, so I don't think it matters very much how smooth and straight the bottom of the saddle is, as long as there is good contact with the sides of the channel.

_____________________________

Ethan Deutsch
www.edluthier.com
www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars
www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 19 2016 1:23:24

Tom Blackshear

Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008

RE: Bone shape (in reply to constructordeguitarras)

quote:

I find that a curved, rather than straight, top of the saddle makes it easier, for example, if you want to bar the 2nd and 3rd strings with your index finger while leaving the first string open.

Some guitar saddles are rounded higher for the 4th string due to its tendency to buzz. This is characteristic of a weaker 4th string in its union with some tops.

I use a straight saddle and tune the 4th string to get a little stronger tension, with the bass side of the saddle being a little higher than the treble. There are several corrections for this; another is to thin out the top under the bridge about .05 mm, about the area of a quarter, at the middle 3rd and 4th strings......This will tighten up the string tension to some extent.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 19 2016 10:22:35

Filip

Posts: 403
Joined: Apr. 23 2006
From: Paris

RE: Bone shape (in reply to Filip)

Hi all,

First of all thanks for replying, and I apologize for my late response (I am quite busy finishing my thesis and preparing the presentation, and I am in the middle for organizing my moving to Paris next week.

I haven't played much in the last couple of weeks, mostly because I don't like this new bone at all. The problem I have is that, apart from buzzing for which I was prepared and expected a bit, there are some strange sounds, very discrete ones but annoying, that I don't know how to explain. I am sure it is something that did not happen before and it confuses me.
When I put back the other bone, I have an impression that it is higher than it used to be so that the luthier confused and lower my original bone and just gave me another one for backup, but I don't know.

I will give the links to some photos for you to see how the new bone fits in the place, and you'll see the empty space between (click the photo to enlarge).

From above https://goo.gl/photos/7cgMPCcFcCxZs5CJ8
From below https://goo.gl/photos/AkssaYqpJaYAL9Ly8
Both bones https://goo.gl/photos/ff1VzcsNzvccdBkH6

I guess I will get a pair of new bones and try to make them myself.

Cheers

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 22 2016 14:55:50

Filip

Posts: 403
Joined: Apr. 23 2006
From: Paris

RE: Bone shape (in reply to Filip)

Oh, and yes, I made some measurements so here are the numbers.
I measured the bone itself as well as the action from beginning of the fretboard or the top to the beginning of the string.

Lower bone:
4mm (5mm in the middle) and 4mm
1st freet: 2mm
12th freet: 4-4.5mm
whole: 9mm
bridge: 7mm

Higher bone:
5mm to a little over 6mm at the 6th string
1st freet: 2mm
12th freet: a little over 5mm
whole: 11mm
bridge: 10mm

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 22 2016 15:01:37