How can I make my guitar less noisy

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Cervantes

Posts: 503
Joined: Jun. 14 2014
From: Encinitas, CA USA

How can I make my guitar less noisy

The only flamenco guitar I have owned was not very expensive ($1000) but I think is an ok guitar. But what I have grown to dislike is it seems to amplify the noise of my nails hitting the strings, almost like a snare drum.
It especially noticeable when playing rasgueados.
I had a lesson today and listening to my teacher play there was a complete absence of this sound from his guitar with him playing it. When he played mine I could hear the noise but not as bad as when I play it. I think it could be my nails are harder and my technique is different. Tonight I thought that maybe lower tension strings might help, so I tuned my guitar down 1/2 step and I think it helped but caused problems with some notes sounding bad. So I am thinking I should try some lower tension strings (I usually use normal) especially on the trebles.

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Ah well, there was a fantastic passion there, in my case anyway. I discovered flamenco
very early on. It grips you in a way that you can't get away - Paco Pena

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 22 2016 4:36:24

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: How can I make my guitar less noisy (in reply to Cervantes)

If it's a snare drum sound I would suspect not enough tension. Like the strings are loose and rattling all over the place, hitting frets etc.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 22 2016 4:44:24

Dudnote

Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 13 2007

RE: How can I make my guitar less noisy (in reply to Cervantes)

You should be hitting the string flesh first and following through with nail. You sure you're doing that?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 22 2016 6:22:54

gerundino63

Posts: 1743
Joined: Jul. 11 2003
From: The Netherlands

RE: How can I make my guitar less noisy (in reply to Cervantes)

Superglue makes te sound more noticeble.....

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 22 2016 7:19:22

Ricardo

Posts: 14797
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: How can I make my guitar less noisy (in reply to gerundino63)

quote:

ORIGINAL: gerundino63

Superglue makes te sound more noticeble.....

Not if the nails are filed properly.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 22 2016 11:04:00

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3077
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: How can I make my guitar less noisy (in reply to Cervantes)

Although I don't use anything on my nails, Ricardo should be the "sticky post" section on the subject.

Everything he has said on the subject is true and if things like shape or super glue usage don't resonate with your experience at first, you might not be doing it exactly right.

It took me a while to figure out the nail shape, then I figured out that the best shape was what Ricardo mentioned as "flat with the shape of the fingertip" (or something like that).

Now on topic and about my experience, since I bought a crystal/glass nail file I never had to use anything else and there are no extraneous noises.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 22 2016 13:55:23

Cervantes

Posts: 503
Joined: Jun. 14 2014
From: Encinitas, CA USA

RE: How can I make my guitar less noisy (in reply to Cervantes)

I need to clarify, the problem is mostly when playing rasgueado so there is no flesh involved, only the tops of my nails are hitting the strings. It is not a problem when playing things like arpeggio. I don't use glue or anything else on my nails. I use a glass nail file and micromesh paper so my nails are very smooth most of the time.

_____________________________

Ah well, there was a fantastic passion there, in my case anyway. I discovered flamenco
very early on. It grips you in a way that you can't get away - Paco Pena

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 22 2016 15:15:07

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3077
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: How can I make my guitar less noisy (in reply to Cervantes)

"Practice cures most tone issues"

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 22 2016 15:22:47

Piwin

Posts: 3559
Joined: Feb. 9 2016

RE: How can I make my guitar less noisy (in reply to Cervantes)

quote:

I need to clarify, the problem is mostly when playing rasgueado so there is no flesh involved, only the tops of my nails are hitting the strings. It is not a problem when playing things like arpeggio.

Dumb question probably, but do you get the snare drum sound if you play rasgueados "softly"? If it only appears at higher volumes, my first guess would be that you need higher tension strings, not lower.
Though if your teacher played it and it was fine, it may be more of a nail/technique issue.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 22 2016 15:33:52

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: How can I make my guitar less noisy (in reply to Cervantes)

quote:

If it only appears at higher volumes, my first guess would be that you need higher tension strings, not lower.

Eso es....

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 22 2016 15:36:22

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3077
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: How can I make my guitar less noisy (in reply to Cervantes)

OTOH, higher tension/thicker strings usually make the "bonky/scratchy" sounds louder...

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 22 2016 15:51:05

koenie17

Posts: 438
Joined: Feb. 25 2011
From: España

RE: How can I make my guitar less noisy (in reply to Cervantes)

You said that when your teacher played your guitar it sounded better, so maybe your rasgeado technique has something to do with it. Like the others allready said maybe a nail issue, too long or not filed acording to your handposition?
Try some different brands/tensions of strings

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 22 2016 16:07:57

BarkellWH

Posts: 3458
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: How can I make my guitar less noisy (in reply to Cervantes)

Elementary question: Did you ask your teacher his opinion of what may be causing it and how the problem may be resolved?

Bill

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With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 22 2016 16:19:57

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: How can I make my guitar less noisy (in reply to Cervantes)

Ah and rasgueado too close to the fretboard can make it sound floppy. Try playing closer to the bridge.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 22 2016 17:38:58

payaso

Posts: 85
Joined: Dec. 7 2014

RE: How can I make my guitar less noisy (in reply to Cervantes)

Hard, obviously, to diagnose without seeing what is happening. Could it be that only the very tips of the nails are hitting across the strings so that there is no real weight in the stroke. It should be possible to test with just downstrokes by index or middle and ring fingers together. One needs to aim for a really full sound, hitting perhaps more down into the strings, the nail contacting the string nearer their middle, not just at the tips

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 22 2016 17:42:57

Flamingrae

Posts: 220
Joined: May 19 2009

RE: How can I make my guitar less noisy (in reply to Cervantes)

quote:

seems to amplify the noise of my nails hitting the strings, almost like a snare drum.

I might have to build a guitar with snares on the inside now - just for the hell of it!!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 22 2016 18:03:02

BarkellWH

Posts: 3458
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: How can I make my guitar less noisy (in reply to Cervantes)

quote:

seems to amplify the noise of my nails hitting the strings, almost like a snare drum.

On the bright side, you might have an inherent "snare drum" effect for a version of "Saeta," an effect that is normally accomplished by crossing the fifth string over the sixth, holding them in that position with the left hand, and with your right hand performing a modified rasgueo that has the tempo of a snare drum. Carlos Montoya did just that with his rendition of "Saeta," which was a pretty good approximation of the music accompanying the Easter procession in Seville.

Bill

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And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

--Rudyard Kipling

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 22 2016 18:56:30

Cervantes

Posts: 503
Joined: Jun. 14 2014
From: Encinitas, CA USA

RE: How can I make my guitar less noisy (in reply to Cervantes)

First thanks for all the feedback.
I have been doing some experimentation and noticed two things:

I have a tendency to grip the body of the guitar with my right elbow which causes my fingers to hit the stings from more above rather in the center. This results in my fingers hitting the bass strings and the not even hitting the high E string. If I stop gripping with the elbow it allows my hand to be more over the center and hit all the treble strings. I have noticed how good guitarists let the guitar just kind of float without gripping it.

If I play more across the stings instead of into them it helps. I found if I relax the first joint next to my fingertip it helps me do this and I also feel more relaxed playing rasgueado. When I was learning rasgueado I always heard flick your finger out, so this is a detail I never knew about until now.

Also just hitting the strings with tips of my fingernails helps some.

These things help reduce the noise but it is still more than I would like.
I will be trying some different tension strings starting with low.
I ordered some Aranjuez Silver 200 which I understand are supposed to be lighter tension.
I remember trying them a long time and liking them but don't remember why I didn't stick with them. Anyway I think I am on to something and thanks for the advise.

_____________________________

Ah well, there was a fantastic passion there, in my case anyway. I discovered flamenco
very early on. It grips you in a way that you can't get away - Paco Pena

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2016 3:46:56

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: How can I make my guitar less noisy (in reply to Cervantes)

quote:

Also just hitting the strings with tips of my fingernails helps some.

These things help reduce the noise but it is still more than I would like.
I will be trying some different tension strings starting with low.
I ordered some Aranjuez Silver 200 which I understand are supposed to be lighter tension.

None of this sounds right primo pero vamos a ver, results are results.
Pa' me, fingers lay into strings on semi-hi tension strings near the bridge and it sounds muy flamenco.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2016 4:10:06

gerundino63

Posts: 1743
Joined: Jul. 11 2003

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Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Apr. 23 2016 9:02:57

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2016 8:56:42

gerundino63

Posts: 1743
Joined: Jul. 11 2003
From: The Netherlands

RE: How can I make my guitar less noisy (in reply to gerundino63)

quote:

Not if the nails are filed properly.

@ Ricardo,

Thanks Ricardo, I will keep that in mind...

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2016 9:02:42

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: How can I make my guitar less noisy (in reply to Cervantes)

If the guitar only rattles and buzzes when playing rasgueado, its 99% sure its because of bad rasgueado tecnique.
Flamenco guitars have low setup and in order to sound well, they require that:
a) you hit the strings relatively parallel to the soundboard and that you strech each finger in the rasgueado. Not doing so will produce buzzing.
b) you play relatively close to the bridge.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2016 10:14:42

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3077
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: How can I make my guitar less noisy (in reply to Cervantes)

quote:

I ordered some Aranjuez Silver 200 which I understand are supposed to be lighter tension.
I remember trying them a long time and liking them but don't remember why I didn't stick with them.

Probably because the basses disintegrate quickly.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2016 10:34:02

Cervantes

Posts: 503
Joined: Jun. 14 2014
From: Encinitas, CA USA

RE: How can I make my guitar less noisy (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anders Eliasson

If the guitar only rattles and buzzes when playing rasgueado, its 99% sure its because of bad rasgueado tecnique.
Flamenco guitars have low setup and in order to sound well, they require that:
a) you hit the strings relatively parallel to the soundboard and that you strech each finger in the rasgueado. Not doing so will produce buzzing.
b) you play relatively close to the bridge.

I think there is some truth to that. As I said hitting the strings parallel as you say does help and even helps me to play better. But I think some if it is the guitar is inherently noisy and it is not as obvious when playing arpeggio or picado because you are not hitting the strings with the back of the nail. When my teacher plays it I still hear the noise compared to his guitar. I had the chance a play a very nice Vicente Carrillo a few months ago and it was a very quiet guitar but with a very loud midrange sound which I thought sounded nice.

_____________________________

Ah well, there was a fantastic passion there, in my case anyway. I discovered flamenco
very early on. It grips you in a way that you can't get away - Paco Pena

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2016 16:21:35

keith

Posts: 1108
Joined: Sep. 29 2009
From: Back in Boston

RE: How can I make my guitar less noisy (in reply to Cervantes)

Cervantes, as you stated, your teacher does not produce the noise on his guitar but does so on your guitar and you do not produce this noise on his guitar or the Carrillo. It may mean the noise is structural such as the action or fret height variance. It might be good to rule out any structural or action issues.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2016 16:46:33

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: How can I make my guitar less noisy (in reply to Cervantes)

Por ultima vez, you need higher tension strings.......

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2016 16:48:25

Cervantes

Posts: 503
Joined: Jun. 14 2014
From: Encinitas, CA USA

RE: How can I make my guitar less noisy (in reply to keith)

quote:

ORIGINAL: keith

Cervantes, as you stated, your teacher does not produce the noise on his guitar but does so on your guitar and you do not produce this noise on his guitar or the Carrillo. It may mean the noise is structural such as the action or fret height variance. It might be good to rule out any structural or action issues.

I did not try his guitar but will next lesson. I did notice some time ago the strings were too low. I made a new saddle and nut that corrected that. I think helped but only a little. I don't get the feeling it is related to string height or frets because if I play with less force its still there. But maybe I should try raising the strings a bit more which I can easily do putting a shim under the saddle.

_____________________________

Ah well, there was a fantastic passion there, in my case anyway. I discovered flamenco
very early on. It grips you in a way that you can't get away - Paco Pena

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2016 17:11:27

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3077
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: How can I make my guitar less noisy (in reply to Leñador)

quote:

Por ultima vez, you need higher tension strings.......

That's usually the solution when the strings are low and there's a lot of rattling on the frets. From my experience, strings with more mass (higher tension) are prone to make things noisier when the source is from the fingers/nails instead of low action/frets.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2016 17:12:33

koenie17

Posts: 438
Joined: Feb. 25 2011
From: España

RE: How can I make my guitar less noisy (in reply to Cervantes)

quote:

I had the chance a play a very nice Vicente Carrillo a few months ago and it was a very quiet guitar but with a very loud midrange sound which I thought sounded nice.

If you´ve got the money and you really want to buy a new guitar for whatever reason do it! But if it is a technique issue the new guitar is probably not going to fix the problem. As you probably know the economic situacion in Spain is quite dificult right now, so there´s a lot of very good players over here playing some really cheapo guitars and you would be surprised the sound they get out of a 200€ plywood factory guitar with 1cm action on 12th fret

The thing I really mean to say is that don´t get obsessed with better guitars, sometimes it can be really good to look at your technique, you said you´re flicking fingers for rasgeo? If you flick them to hard this will produce an unpleasant noise. Try instead of flicking just to push your fingers one by one without shooting them from your thumb, Also make sure you make good contact with the strings, not just your finger tips. Push thrue the strings for a good full sound.it takes some practice but if done correctly it sounds really good! you can get exactly the same sound as flicking. What helped me lately very much is playing softer, it´s not necesary to play hard to get a good tone.

A great guitarplayer can make almost every guitar sound great!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2016 17:16:33

Ricardo

Posts: 14797
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: How can I make my guitar less noisy (in reply to Cervantes)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cervantes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anders Eliasson

If the guitar only rattles and buzzes when playing rasgueado, its 99% sure its because of bad rasgueado tecnique.
Flamenco guitars have low setup and in order to sound well, they require that:
a) you hit the strings relatively parallel to the soundboard and that you strech each finger in the rasgueado. Not doing so will produce buzzing.
b) you play relatively close to the bridge.

I think there is some truth to that. As I said hitting the strings parallel as you say does help and even helps me to play better. But I think some if it is the guitar is inherently noisy and it is not as obvious when playing arpeggio or picado because you are not hitting the strings with the back of the nail. When my teacher plays it I still hear the noise compared to his guitar. I had the chance a play a very nice Vicente Carrillo a few months ago and it was a very quiet guitar but with a very loud midrange sound which I thought sounded nice.

Ah ok, I know what the problem is. You need to get a Conde.

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CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2016 22:52:03