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Luthiers - can y'all help this dude?
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BarkellWH
Posts: 3458
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
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 RE: Luthiers - can y'all help this dude? (in reply to Andy Culpepper)
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quote:
I contacted that luthier and asked him if he had done a similar deal, which he had. He told me that the artist made that one, not very high-quality, video and then promptly sold the guitars. The video had fewer than 1000 views. Not worth $8,000 in my opinion.
There will always be those who try and get something for nothing. They want a guitar, or they want to study flamenco in Spain, and they want others to pay the freight. Unfortunately, the Foro seems to attract its share. There are at least a couple of websites, one featuring a couple of Australians and one featuring a guy from Scotland. I suppose the idea is to pay into their "kitty" (kickstarter fund) for the privilege of following their progress as they learn flamenco and "discover" Spain.
Now comes a plea for a luthier to donate a guitar. I do not think the Foro should be used to shill for these guys. Whatever happened to the idea of working and saving for the things one wants to do and buy? But, of course, that would detract from their pursuit of instant gratification and likely would damage their self-esteem.
Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."
--Rudyard Kipling
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Date Apr. 18 2016 20:14:54
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BarkellWH
Posts: 3458
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
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RE: Luthiers - can y'all help this dude? (in reply to rombsix)
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No personal experience, Ramzi. Just a marked disdain for those who want instant gratification and plead for others to pay the freight so they won't have to. And I don't think the Foro should be used as a tin cup in shilling for funding for their activities. I was expressing a personal opinion and in no way was suggesting that Simon should lock, delete, or keep the thread. Apparently that was something you read into my post while imagining something else. There have been posts in the past with which I have disagreed (as haven't all of us?), but I have never suggested that a thread or post should be locked or deleted. I believe in a full expression of opinions across the spectrum, including yours and mine.
Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."
--Rudyard Kipling
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Date Apr. 18 2016 20:58:52
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BarkellWH
Posts: 3458
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
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RE: Luthiers - can y'all help this dude? (in reply to Leñador)
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quote:
Seems like nothing outright dishonest about this or the Australian couple.
No one suggested they were dishonest, Lenny. That wasn't the question under consideration. Basically I disagree with using the Foro to shill for these people, but I would not suggest the thread be locked or deleted, as Ramzi seemed to think. Only my opinion for what it's worth, which as I have noted elsewhere, will buy a cup of coffee sans doughnut.
Nevertheless, where do I contribute to your "travel fund" for Spain next year? And what will I get in return? Will you blog about all your discoveries and adventures? Are there different levels of contributions that provide varying levels of goodies? What level of contribution would be required to have a set of six copitas de jerez sent to me to go with the six I already have (copitas from Jerez de la Frontera would be especially appreciated)?
Cheers,
Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."
--Rudyard Kipling
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Date Apr. 18 2016 21:11:36
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rombsix
Posts: 7805
Joined: Jan. 11 2006
From: Beirut, Lebanon
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RE: Luthiers - can y'all help this dude? (in reply to pink)
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I think Kudo can also say something about Anoush because he has met him in person as well if I'm not mistaken.
Bill and others who are not big fans of the initial post here - I guess I'm pretty naive and overly nice of a person, but don't we owe it to give people the benefit of the doubt before bashing them? I didn't say that you were insinuating that this thread get locked/deleted, Bill, but from how things have been going on the foro lately, Simon has had a zero-to-low tolerance for putting up with threads that may cause a stir. You, Bill, usually are quite present in stating your opinions and come across to me as pretty strong in how you put things. That is, you don't beat around the bush, and you are very direct, so that kind of communication can rile some people up and lead to heated discussions (and displeased foro moderators). Maybe I'm just completely mistaken, or maybe living in Nashville for 4 years now has made me need to hear things in a more sugar-coated way, but that is how I feel...
My Spanish is not so great, but I think in the video Anoush says that his guitar is damaged extensively to the point that he cannot afford paying the money for such a repair job, and not that it is impossible for his guitar to be repaired. I don't understand why he thought to put up a video about getting a whole new guitar versus getting a luthier to repair his guitar at no cost in return for advertisement. Maybe he has a factory guitar so he cannot send it back to the original luthier to get it fixed. Maybe he thought that he would genuinely be doing a luthier a favor by trying to do this, and that the luthier will be OK with it. Most of the people here that reacted fiercely are not luthiers if I'm not mistaken, so I guess that doesn't put them in the strongest position to respond to such a video offer...
I guess I ought to go back to being more conservative and just posting "safely" on the foro, but hey, you only live once, huh? Might as well throw a curve ball every now and then (not all the time, Simon, I promise). 
_____________________________
Ramzi
http://www.youtube.com/rombsix
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Date Apr. 18 2016 23:08:03
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Richard Jernigan
Posts: 3430
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA
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RE: Luthiers - can y'all help this dude? (in reply to pink)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: pink
I've just taken the time to read the whole thread prior to my last post and I've got to say that Some of the comments are pretty ungracious.....
I shall stress again that this guy IS A WORKING FLAMENCO GUITARIST WHO TOURS AROUND EUROPE BUSKING TO MAKE A LIVING FROM SOMETHING HE WORKS HARD AT AND IS HIGHLY PASSIONATE ABOUT.
I would suggest also that if one of our own foro 'talents' needed help then no one here would question the integrity of their request....just because you don't know someone by no way means that their plea is not genuine. He is a working flamenco whose only guitar is badly damaged and who is in need of help.....the tool he uses is fukked for want of a better expression. Are we so fukked as a group of culture lovers that we can't listen,take the time to research his credentials and then comment and perhaps help? Its hard to make a living at the best of times and anyone who has tried to make ends meet as a musician will know how difficult in particular this can be.
Good find Ramzi and what a kind offer from Stephen too ...you are a gentleman!
Best
pink
Here in Texas there has been a generational change in attitudes. It was never explicitly discussed, but it was abundantly clear to me that once I had my undergraduate degree, I was on my own, and could expect no further assistance from my family. That was fine with me. At age 19 I decided I required to further parental advice. To me that implied I deserved no further support.
My family were reasonably well off, but very long lived. My father lived to be 94, my mother 97. By the time they passed away, I had become fairly prosperous on my own, with no help from anyone. The money I inherited from my parents is only about 10% of my net worth. The same goes for my brother.
But my 45-year old son has an acquaintance his age, in the same neighborhood where he grew up, who lives entirely off his mother. The neighborhood has gone from respectable middle class to wealthy during my son's lifetime, but this acquaintance was one of his high school classmates.
When I found that my son's acquaintance lived off his widowed mother, I made no explicit remark, but my son detected a negative reaction. He said, "Dad, lots of people live off their parents in T.[neighborhood]"
"You don't."
"Yes I do. Mom rents me the house really cheap. She pays the taxes on it."
We bought the house for $80,000 in 1980, I gave my ex-wife my half when we divorced in 1987, it is now worth about $1.5-million. She doesn't need the money, having inherited enough from her father to live on very comfortably, and having married the only one of my old friends who is better off than I am.
"In my day it was very clear that adult children made their own way in the world."
"Yes, I know. I've known that for a long time. But people's attitudes have changed a lot in the last 50 years."
My personal attitude hasn't changed that much. But if a widowed mother wants to support her 45-year old son, that's their business, not mine.
If a legit musician wants to float a proposal, whatever its chance of success, who am I to judge? Let the luthiers decide, he's not asking me for anything. If I knew him personally, I might be inclined to lend him one of my guitars, who knows? But I don't know the guy and I'm kind of old fashioned....
RNJ
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Date Apr. 19 2016 0:30:04
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Maybe he should try and make it a bit more interesting for the luthier! Like Kiko said pay bit by bit, or at least pay for the materials. 
