Not to spoil the other thread

Costs are rising and times are tough.
Please consider a donation to keep this
place going.

Welcome to one of the most active flamenco sites on the Internet. Guests can read most posts but if you want to participate click here to register.

This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvira, Philip John Lee, Craig Eros, Ben Woods, David Serva and Tom Blackshear who went ahead of us.

We receive 12,200 visitors a month from 200 countries and 1.7 million page impressions a year. To advertise on this site please contact us.

You are logged in as Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >>Discussions >>General >>

Page: [1]

Message

<< Newer Topic Older Topic >>

Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010

Not to spoil the other thread

In the artistically well-made ads for workshops in this thread there are two items to be seen several times discussed on the foro.

# Right hand nail shaping

In Antonio Reys poster it looks as if he files them slanted from left to right.
(They way I am used to since quite a while. Currently trying the opposite way [as suggested by Ricardo], with according planting, which unexpectedly to me shows to be interesting too, though.)

# Guitar decoration (rosettes, purfling, sometimes small inlay here or there)

Esthetically appreciating both, humble guitar deco as well as extravagant one (with first criterion being performance anyway; no need to stress that), I don´t agree into the traditionally humble style to have come about voluntarily. Rather assuming typical budget motives behind common layout of flamencas.

Quite convinced of that gitanos would had preferred bling like with Diego del Morao´s guitar shown in his poster (if not way more than that, hadn´t it been too expensive to have it done).
BTW: As frills are to be seen so seldomly: Which maker´s is it?

Ruphus

Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 6 2016 9:38:42

Ricardo

Posts: 14806
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Not to spoil the other thread (in reply to Ruphus)

1. The poster is not crystal clear...nail shape can only truly be seen in 3D at different angles....however, I see more nail material (white part separated from skin) on the pinky side of the index, the thumb side of the Ring finger, and the middle finger seems pretty even. THis is INFACT what I suggest. THere are more clear photos on the inside of his album cover CD booklet "Camino del Alma". Again, photos are only showing two dimensions really.

2. The poster of Diego is also not clear. Which guitar do you mean...HIS guitar he actually plays (Conde A26 standard)? Of the BACKGROUND painted guitar? (Probably not a real guitar but an artists rendering). As for the eyeball rosette, never seen such a thing, but the outer edging is based on an old rosette design I have seen on old Sobrinos de Esteso guitars. (Wave line with dots under the crests).

About "bling", sure gitanos love that but when it comes to guitars, they used to be luxury items. Torres made guitars that functioned for professionals that were quite simple, not ornate, and this caught on aesthetically as "beautiful" in it's own right. In the end it's about sound and feel. I admit I like the guitar of Jeronimo Peña Fernandez first for it's "bling" style...but it also happens to sound great as an instrument. Perhaps not the ideal sound (compared to a "plain" looking Conde, Reyes, Barbero, etc) Check videos of Manolo Franco using this guitar. The nice "bling" for flamenco guitars is the trad cejilla IMO.

Ricardo

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 6 2016 11:14:11

Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010

RE: Not to spoil the other thread (in reply to Ruphus)

Interesting points, Ricardo; thank you.

No doubt, sound & feel come first.
It´s just that as you confirm flamencos sure didn´t order simple looks voluntarily / the aesthetical development was economically based.
-

The guitar on the Morao poster is the same in fore- and background.
You can see the rosette in the foreground too.

So, it´s a Conde, right.
-

I don´t fully comprehend the nail thing.

Provided I understood your suggestion right, to not angle the wrist sideways to accomodate for thumb-side planting, but instead leave wrist & hand at poise / planting with pink-side of finger tips ...
A longer white section on the pink side should then only lead to getting stuck. Respectively, for supporting pink-sided ramp the nails outer side towards pinky should be shorter.
Innit?

Ruphus

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 6 2016 14:36:35

El Rey De los Bagres

Posts: 86
Joined: Apr. 29 2014

RE: Not to spoil the other thread (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

About "bling", sure gitanos love that but when it comes to guitars, they used to be luxury items. Torres made guitars that functioned for professionals that were quite simple, not ornate, and this caught on aesthetically as "beautiful" in it's own right. In the end it's about sound and feel. I admit I like the guitar of Jeronimo Peña Fernandez first for it's "bling" style...but it also happens to sound great as an instrument. Perhaps not the ideal sound (compared to a "plain" looking Conde, Reyes, Barbero, etc) Check videos of Manolo Franco using this guitar. The nice "bling" for flamenco guitars is the trad cejilla IMO.

For me there are many things on a guitar that from a strictly visual perspective can "make it bling" the quality of the woods used, the french polish, the head-stock design, rosette, proportions etc...I don like flamboyant looking guitars but like you stated luthiere built flamencas tend not to be overly ornamented.

_____________________________

♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪ Olé Bagreeee!!!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 6 2016 14:55:54

Ricardo

Posts: 14806
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Not to spoil the other thread (in reply to Ruphus)

quote:

The guitar on the Morao poster is the same in fore- and background.
You can see the rosette in the foreground too.

Not really, look at the tie block. He could be posing with anything, The Conde is what he normally uses.

quote:

Provided I understood your suggestion right, to not angle the wrist sideways to accomodate for thumb-side planting, but instead leave wrist & hand at poise / planting with pink-side of finger tips ...
A longer white section on the pink side should then only lead to getting stuck. Respectively, for supporting pink-sided ramp the nails outer side towards pinky should be shorter.
Innit?

The wrist must bend sideways so the finger attack straight on. for flamenco. For classical I have seen tons of variation, including straight wrist. In any case, if you hold hand flat and bend your fingers as if to play, you might notice the ring and index curl inward toward the palm (imagine open hand spread fingers, then make a fist). Playing guitar is, as Scott tenant says in pumping nylon "making little fists with your hands". So, by the logic of that angle, then you will note the catch would be on pinky side of ring, and thumb side of index, if you were to have claw nails. So the "angle" if that's how we will describe it, needs to be a "ramp", then it is those two edges need to be shaved.

Hope that makes sense.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 7 2016 4:09:16

Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010

RE: Not to spoil the other thread (in reply to Ruphus)

Yes, makes sense. Thanks for explaining! I see now what you mean. Will be trying that one out.
-

You are right. I see that now. Though same rosette the axe in the background has a peg bridge (with such an extremely slanted saddle that it makes me doubt whether it could be intonating right, besides).

So Conde has been experimenting with pegged bridges? Always something new to learn about!
-

Regarding Morao´s A-nail it still seems contrary to the functions you mentioned. But who knows, maybe his A-finger bends with the tip towards pinky side.

Ruphus

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 7 2016 9:24:05

Ricardo

Posts: 14806
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Not to spoil the other thread (in reply to Ruphus)

quote:

So Conde has been experimenting with pegged bridges? Always something new to learn about!

To reiterate: that is NOT a Conde in the picture, nor is it the instrument D. MORAO normally is using on stage. The peg bridge guitar (I think to be artist rendering) is possibly a steel string. THe guitar in his hands has a 12 hole tie block, again NOT his normal concert guitar. MORAO nails are not pictured, but from what I have seen, father like son, they had been using quite long un-shaped plastic fake nails, resulting in a rather harsh brittle (when not driven apoyando) attack....very different than A. Rey and others shorter crisper filed-for-tone type nail. IMO.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 8 2016 11:41:08

El Rey De los Bagres

Posts: 86
Joined: Apr. 29 2014

RE: Not to spoil the other thread (in reply to Ruphus)

On this vid you get a pretty good idea of how his nails look.

_____________________________

♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪ Olé Bagreeee!!!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 8 2016 14:45:19

Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010

RE: Not to spoil the other thread (in reply to Ruphus)

Sorry for being a Jerk, Ricardo.
I meant Rey´s nails, naturally.
- And hadn´t noted that you were saying Morao ususally using conde, however that those used in the poster being none.

I am clearly a bit off these days from creepy stress.

Ruphus

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 8 2016 15:25:28

Ricardo

Posts: 14806
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Not to spoil the other thread (in reply to Ruphus)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ruphus

Sorry for being a Jerk, Ricardo.
I meant Rey´s nails, naturally.
- And hadn´t noted that you were saying Morao ususally using conde, however that those used in the poster being none.

I am clearly a bit off these days from creepy stress.

Ruphus

No worries. I recently saw a video where D. MORAO is using a NEGRA of different (unknown by me) make. Perhaps his new guitar has a rosette like the one pictured? I will investigate.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 9 2016 18:48:33

Stu

Posts: 2529
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

RE: Not to spoil the other thread (in reply to Ruphus)

Antonio Rey appears to have virtually no thumb nail!?!?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 10 2016 10:05:08

tijeretamiel

Posts: 441
Joined: Jan. 6 2012

RE: Not to spoil the other thread (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo

No worries. I recently saw a video where D. MORAO is using a NEGRA of different (unknown by me) make. Perhaps his new guitar has a rosette like the one pictured? I will investigate.

Do you have a link for the video?

I'm sure DdM has a pretty nice collection of guitars. Aside from the Conde, in recent videos he seems to play a Brazilian RW Barbero as well.

It really doesn't matter what guitar DdM he plays though, with skills and genetics like his, he could play a 6 string banjo and it would still sound flamenco and killer!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 10 2016 10:51:20