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What Rosewood?   You are logged in as Guest
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FERREREZAKI

Posts: 64
Joined: Jul. 10 2013
 

What Rosewood? 
Hi all,

What Rosewood species is this back made of you think? It is supposed to be "Jacaranda" and it's from the sixties?



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 27 2015 20:51:58
 
gansz

 

Posts: 29
Joined: Oct. 24 2006
 

RE: What Rosewood? (in reply to FERREREZAKI) 
Likely Brazilian, given the date...,
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 28 2015 14:48:02
 
Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006
 

RE: What Rosewood? (in reply to FERREREZAKI) 
Noone can tell you what it is from a picture. Maybe they cant do so even after touching and smelling it.
It can be whatever brownish south american hardwood. Jacaranda can be used for rosewoods and whatever other wood that has looks like this one.
You will, of course and as usual get a lot of replies from the wannabee´s that has read a lot of online articles about mystical brown woods.

Why do you want to know? Is the guitar good?
The wood is not specially well cut. The grain starts tilting close to the center and ends up being flat sawn

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 28 2015 16:24:36
 
FERREREZAKI

Posts: 64
Joined: Jul. 10 2013
 

RE: What Rosewood? (in reply to Anders Eliasson) 
You tell me it's meaningless to ask what type of wood the guitar might be made of?
And you think it's more meaningful to ask if a guitar is good?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 28 2015 18:59:39
 
FERREREZAKI

Posts: 64
Joined: Jul. 10 2013
 

RE: What Rosewood? (in reply to gansz) 
OK.
I first thought it could be indian rosewood, but haven't seen that color or texture on other IRW guitars I've had.
And the smell is different.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 28 2015 19:03:03
 
tijeretamiel

 

Posts: 441
Joined: Jan. 6 2012
 

RE: What Rosewood? (in reply to FERREREZAKI) 
On the subject of Jacaranda, any idea what the back and sides of this Bellido guitar is?

http://www.flamencoguitarsforsale.net/es/guitarras-flamencas/usadas/bellido-2008-jacaranda.html
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 28 2015 19:38:46
 
Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: What Rosewood? (in reply to FERREREZAKI) 
Apparently Brazilian rosewood will NOT floures and others will.
http://www.wood-database.com/wood-articles/distinguishing-brazilian-rosewood-from-east-indian-and-other-rosewoods/

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 28 2015 19:39:58
 
FERREREZAKI

Posts: 64
Joined: Jul. 10 2013
 

RE: What Rosewood? (in reply to Leñador) 
That fluorescence- test was helpful, didn't know of that, thanks.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 28 2015 20:24:01
 
FERREREZAKI

Posts: 64
Joined: Jul. 10 2013
 

RE: What Rosewood? (in reply to tijeretamiel) 
Nice Bellido!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 28 2015 20:35:26
 
Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006
 

RE: What Rosewood? (in reply to FERREREZAKI) 
quote:

You tell me it's meaningless to ask what type of wood the guitar might be made of?
And you think it's more meaningful to ask if a guitar is good?


I say its meaningless to put a photo on a forum and expect to get answer that will tell you anything but speculation and myth.
I base this on many years of experience, hundreds of similar photos. They never say anything.

If you want to know, then go to a builder that has worked with a lot of south american hard woods. Then MAYBE there´s a very small chance that this guy will be able to tell you something.

I have seen Indian rosewood with this color on old guitars. I dont think the wood is from the Pau Ferro family. It looks like the wood has pretty big pores.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 29 2015 8:26:48
 
Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006
 

RE: What Rosewood? (in reply to tijeretamiel) 
quote:

On the subject of Jacaranda, any idea what the back and sides of this Bellido guitar is?

http://www.flamencoguitarsforsale.net/es/guitarras-flamencas/usadas/bellido-2008-jacaranda.html


It can be whatever. Jacaranda is often used for unspecified rosewood or rosewood like wood and also for some members of the Pau Ferro family which on the other hand is sometimes called rosewoods even though its not Dalberghia etc. The south american wood scene is like that. You never really know what you get. There´s another generic name for the same kinds of wood, same zone which I cant remember right now.

A friend of mine bought some Jacaranda. In Bolivia, I think. Very pretty straight grained wood. He sold it in Granada. Its some 9 - 10 years ago, so maybe Bellido bought some of it and used on this guitar. It looks familiar.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 29 2015 8:38:23
 
tijeretamiel

 

Posts: 441
Joined: Jan. 6 2012
 

RE: What Rosewood? (in reply to Anders Eliasson) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Anders Eliasson

quote:

On the subject of Jacaranda, any idea what the back and sides of this Bellido guitar is?

http://www.flamencoguitarsforsale.net/es/guitarras-flamencas/usadas/bellido-2008-jacaranda.html


It can be whatever. Jacaranda is often used for unspecified rosewood or rosewood like wood and also for some members of the Pau Ferro family which on the other hand is sometimes called rosewoods even though its not Dalberghia etc. The south american wood scene is like that. You never really know what you get. There´s another generic name for the same kinds of wood, same zone which I cant remember right now.

A friend of mine bought some Jacaranda. In Bolivia, I think. Very pretty straight grained wood. He sold it in Granada. Its some 9 - 10 years ago, so maybe Bellido bought some of it and used on this guitar. It looks familiar.


Thanks for the info Anders for the Bellido. Whatever species it is, I like the guitar like I do most of Bellido's I have come across.

Is the other generic name you are thinking of 'Caviuna'? I've seen the term Caviuna used to represent Brazilian, Pau Ferro and Amazon Rosewood.

I'm in agreement the b/s posted above isn't Pau Ferro. I had a Pau Ferro negra which had a very characteristic grain to it.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 29 2015 11:30:56
 
FERREREZAKI

Posts: 64
Joined: Jul. 10 2013
 

RE: What Rosewood? (in reply to tijeretamiel) 
Padauk maybe?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 29 2015 14:45:41
 
Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3023
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From: NY, USA

RE: What Rosewood? (in reply to FERREREZAKI) 
quote:

Padauk maybe?


Don't think so.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 29 2015 14:55:02
 
FERREREZAKI

Posts: 64
Joined: Jul. 10 2013
 

RE: What Rosewood? (in reply to FERREREZAKI) 
Because it's not that red or is there anything else you might see?
=)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 29 2015 15:20:02
 
Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3023
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: What Rosewood? (in reply to FERREREZAKI) 
The red can fade over time, but the dark lines in that wood are too dark. Also, Padauk has interlocking grain, similar to Mahogany. If you turn it different ways in the light, you'll see inch-wide or so strips changing from light to dark up and down the back. Hard to tell from the picture but it looks like Rosewood to me.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 29 2015 15:29:18
 
FERREREZAKI

 

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 29 2015 16:44:53
 
FERREREZAKI

Posts: 64
Joined: Jul. 10 2013
 

RE: What Rosewood? (in reply to Andy Culpepper) 
A bit confusing now. But the padauk guess was for the Bellido that someone else asked about.

As Anders Eliasson pointed out, the guitar back that I posted could be anything really.
Possibly some sort of Wood but it could equally well be a photo wallpaper someone stuck to the back of the guitar, I guess.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 29 2015 16:46:56
 
Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3023
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: What Rosewood? (in reply to FERREREZAKI) 
quote:

A bit confusing now. But the padauk guess was for the Bellido that someone else asked about.


Oh OK, that could be padauk, but looks more like Palo Escrito or Pau Ferro...

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 29 2015 19:39:47
 
Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006
 

RE: What Rosewood? (in reply to FERREREZAKI) 
Manuel Bellido has built various guitars with Padauk. I´ve tried a few and they were amongst his better guitars. He called the wood 'Coral', which is the most common spanish name for Padauk.
In general, he always called the wood by its name... So, I believe that the person that sold him (or one of the sons) the wood has called it Jacaranda. And there´s a fair chance its exactly the wood I mentioned above.

What it is scientifically, I dont think we´ll ever know. There are many species in the Amazon region.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 29 2015 20:49:44
 
Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006
 

RE: What Rosewood? (in reply to tijeretamiel) 
quote:

Is the other generic name you are thinking of 'Caviuna'? I've seen the term Caviuna used to represent Brazilian, Pau Ferro and Amazon Rosewood.


Youp, thats the name and it has been used a lot in different "stories"
Some years ago, a foro member bought a socalled Braz rosewood Conde Filipe V for a lot of money in a very famous USA west coast shop. When it arrive, the label said 'Caviuna'.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 29 2015 20:54:05
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14799
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: What Rosewood? (in reply to FERREREZAKI) 
bla bla... top guitar is braziliian, the bellido is cherry. Caviuna, I suspect, started being used as a description of brazilian because new brazilian guitars are totally illegal blackmarket items. I think a fair visual test are with Ramirez III guitars...he certainly knew his D. Nigra from the rest. If that is not the case, I think it is safe to say, D. Nigra throughout history has always been substituted with other south american rosewoods only a botanist would know. So it's moot point, negras are negras.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 30 2015 17:05:17
 
mqbernardo

 

Posts: 47
Joined: Mar. 26 2012
 

RE: What Rosewood? (in reply to FERREREZAKI) 
while identifying wood on line can be a wild goose chase, if i was hard pressed i´d put my money on Brazilian rosewood on this one (colour,pores, dark ink lines). Closest candidate would be madagascar, but i don´t think it was very popular / common during the 60s.

Jacaranda is one of the (many) names for Dalbergia nigra (in fact, it´s the most popular in Brazil) but it was also used since the 60s on some japanese guitars made from some kind of indonesian (? - at least i´m sure it was southeast asian) rosewood.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 30 2015 17:45:25
 
Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006
 

RE: What Rosewood? (in reply to Ricardo) 
quote:

bla bla... top guitar is braziliian, the bellido is cherry. Caviuna, I suspect, started being used as a description of brazilian because new brazilian guitars are totally illegal blackmarket items. I think a fair visual test are with Ramirez III guitars...he certainly knew his D. Nigra from the rest. If that is not the case, I think it is safe to say, D. Nigra throughout history has always been substituted with other south american rosewoods only a botanist would know. So it's moot point, negras are negras.

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That was really bla bla. 10 bla bla points to you

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 1 2015 7:47:28
 
Anders Eliasson

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Joined: Oct. 18 2006
 

RE: What Rosewood? (in reply to FERREREZAKI) 
The Jacaranda that my friend bought in South America was 100% sure NOT Dalberghia Nigra and most probably it wasnt a rosewood....

Its impressive how much people like to speculate about Brazz rosewood. In the the end its just 2 things:
1) a piece of wood cut from a tree
2) a myth.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 1 2015 12:51:07
 
Echi

 

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RE: What Rosewood? (in reply to FERREREZAKI) 
I agree on everything

Re the Bellido, I notice that a guitar similar to that one is on the famous Bay.
The guitar is listed as Palo Escrito back and sides: interestingly the wood is very similar, even though not as reddish.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 1 2015 13:04:45
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14799
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: What Rosewood? (in reply to Anders Eliasson) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Anders Eliasson

quote:

bla bla... top guitar is braziliian, the bellido is cherry. Caviuna, I suspect, started being used as a description of brazilian because new brazilian guitars are totally illegal blackmarket items. I think a fair visual test are with Ramirez III guitars...he certainly knew his D. Nigra from the rest. If that is not the case, I think it is safe to say, D. Nigra throughout history has always been substituted with other south american rosewoods only a botanist would know. So it's moot point, negras are negras.

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That was really bla bla. 10 bla bla points to you


bla bla bla it's a NEGRA...bla bla bla...

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 4 2015 17:30:44
 
Anders Eliasson

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RE: What Rosewood? (in reply to FERREREZAKI) 
eso si.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 5 2015 7:08:56
 
mmmenk

 

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RE: What Rosewood? (in reply to Anders Eliasson) 
I vote for Dalbegia nigra on that photo. Save it for the rich guys, give my the cipres and the common wood. To my mind, that is the essence of flamenco
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 23 2016 2:34:02
 
Anders Eliasson

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RE: What Rosewood? (in reply to FERREREZAKI) 
So what do you base your vote on?

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 23 2016 7:39:40
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